I did something very stupid . . . .

Hello All,

So, I was on Wine Commune, looking at things closing today, and saw 2 bottles of Guigal Gigondas 1982, unspecified reserve, but with no bids. So mostly out of curiosity, I put in a bid, one that wouldn't break the bank, but one I thought wouldn't meet the reserve either. To my surprise, the bid met the reserve. So, I went to do research, and discovered why nobody bid on it - consensus seems to be that 1982 was pretty bad for the southern Rhone. Now, usually on these old curiosities, I ask for Rogov's note first, and usually discovering that they're not likely to be drinkable, I pass. What possessed me to put in a bid on this one I don't know. Anyway, I will soon be the not-so-proud owner of the said two bottles.

So, how badly did I screw up? Perhaps Rogov will have pity on me and provide a note?

Best Wishes,
Ryan

A 26-year-old negociant villages wine from a mediocre vintage. I'm afraid the prospects aren't very good. Don't expect very much from this wine. I'd expect it to be in decline, but maybe still OK if you like old wine. I wouldn't serve this for some special occasion, or I'd be sure to have a back-up wine if I did.

Sorry to be so pessimistic, but even in a great vintage I think 26 years is pushing it a bit for Guigal Gigondas, and 1982 was definitely not a good vintage for the Rhone.

Don't expect too much, but perhaps you'll be pleasantly surprised.

-Paul W.

Ryan,

Look at it as an adventure. As long as you didn't have to spend rent, or food money you can look at it as a learning experience. I've got a 1956 Paul Masson Zinfandel that I have really low hopes for. But you just never know...

Ryan, Hi.....

Sometimes our "stupidities" can be great fun. Or if not great fun at least a good excuse for chuckling out ourselves. As others have implied, I would have absolutely minimal expectations of this wine and when opening would be certain to have a standby bottle close at hand. I tasted the wine in question twice. My most recent (and as you will see, not all that recent) tasting note follows.

Best
Rogov


Guigal, Gigondas, Rhone, 1982: A problematic wine reflecting a problematic vintage year. In its youth light cherry red towards garnet, medium-bodied with somewhat watery plum and berry fruits. Now, although still technically young, already past its peak, the fruits turning herbal and lacking length, depth or concentration. Not much here and going downhill quickly. Drink up. Score 77. (Re-tasted 4 Feb 1988)

Good Gigondas from a strong vintage can go 15 years or so. There will be exceptions, but figure an outside limit of 20. This is a negociant Gigondas from a weak vintage. There are always surprises in the world, so you may get lucky, but don't get your hopes up. On the other hand, if you didn't pay much, the tasting may have some educational value (like it may turn out I'm wrong about the aging potential of Guigal Gigondas).

Good Gigondas from a strong vintage can go 15 years or so. There will be exceptions, but figure an outside limit of 20. This is a negociant Gigondas from a weak vintage. There are always surprises in the world, so you may get lucky, but don't get your hopes up. On the other hand, if you didn't pay much, the tasting may have some educational value (like it may turn out I'm wrong about the aging potential of Guigal Gigondas).

Good response. You've already bought, and from your description with what you thought was alow bid. So now you're bummed, and all the wine can do is exceed your expectations! And who know- in last couple years I've had good if not stellar '92 non-name Brunellos, '88 Langhes, half bottles of '82 Puligny from so-so negoce, etc. Sometimes bottles one doesn't expect much of can surprise. If it was cheap, you're not out much if it shows poorly!

Oh, I'm always game for learning and curiosity experiences. Thing is, I suppose in the back of my mind I thought perhaps the Gigondas could go in a tasting or something - but I can't really ethically do that now, and so I just blew my meager wine allowance on it. So, yes, bummed, and thinking "what kind of utter idiot puts an impulsive bid in on wine/vintage he doesn't actually know about without doing any research first!?!"

Well, I'm going to put the Verdi Dies Irae on repeat and contemplate what to do with these . . . . (scratch that: Mozart Requiem instead)

As a S. Rhone wine nut, I'd be happy if this showed up at a tasting, as long as there was enough back-up wine and we were prepared to declare it non compos mentis and move on. Over the hill wines that aren't dnpim are interesting at least for a sip or two and give you information on how to judge good wines that are moving through old age as to how far into old age they are. And, as I said, strange things happen. But I don't want to discourage you playing either the Verdi or the Mozart Requiem. Along with Berlioz, Brahms and Faure, they are the Requiems that make life worth living.

As a S. Rhone wine nut, I'd be happy if this showed up at a tasting...

Mental note to Ryan, save this wine for when you meet Jonathan

As a S. Rhone wine nut, I'd be happy if this showed up at a tasting, as long as there was enough back-up wine and we were prepared to declare it non compos mentis and move on. Over the hill wines that aren't dnpim are interesting at least for a sip or two and give you information on how to judge good wines that are moving through old age as to how far into old age they are.

I can send one of the bottles your way at cost . . . . in fact I'll send both of them your way at cost . . . . or better yet, since the seller hasn't even contacted me yet, I could just redirect him to you (dead serious). My winning bid was $30 (for both bottles), plus shipping from Texas (cost as-of-yet unknown).

But I don't want to discourage you playing either the Verdi or the Mozart Requiem. Along with Berlioz, Brahms and Faure, they are the Requiems that make life worth living.

Agreed! My little CD stash here at work currently includes the Verdi, Mozart, Brahms, and Faure Requiems, as well as the Rutter (which obviously isn't in the same league, but it has its moments). Have the A.L. Webber (initials make it look much less vulgar!) at home - very interesting one that, very 20th century, not at all like the rest of his stuff - and it too has it's moments. Not familiar with the Berlioz requiem - in fact I wasn't particularly aware that he wrote one.

As a S. Rhone wine nut, I'd be happy if this showed up at a tasting...

Mental note to Ryan, save this wine for when you meet Jonathan

May just have to do that. Jonathan, where are you located?

But I don't want to discourage you playing either the Verdi or the Mozart Requiem. Along with Berlioz, Brahms and Faure, they are the Requiems that make life worth living.

Agreed! My little CD stash here at work currently includes the Verdi, Mozart, Brahms, and Faure Requiems, as well as the Rutter (which obviously isn't in the same league, but it has its moments). Have the A.L. Webber (initials make it look much less vulgar!) at home - very interesting one that, very 20th century, not at all like the rest of his stuff - and it too has it's moments. Not familiar with the Berlioz requiem - in fact I wasn't particularly aware that he wrote one.

If you chaps don't mind Renaissance music, there are plenty of nice Requiems to add to the list. I am most familiar with Iberian polyphony so I'll just add two names for now: Victoria and Cardoso. Sublime pieces both of them.

If you chaps don't mind Renaissance music, there are plenty of nice Requiems to add to the list. I am most familiar with Iberian polyphony so I'll just add two names for now: Victoria and Cardoso. Sublime pieces both of them.

I love Victoria - will have to seek it out - did he write just one Requiem?

I love Victoria - will have to seek it out - did he write just one Requiem?

No. The work commonly referred to as Victoria's Requiem is the Officium Defunctorum for Empress Maria (d. 1603) that Victoria published in 1605. He did an earlier Requiem in 1583 but I don't know for whose death it was composed and I don't think it has been recorded.

One more, also familiar from the Tallis Scholars, Duarte Lobo's Requiem. Unearthly beauty. Those Iberians really knew their polyphony!

As a S. Rhone wine nut, I'd be happy if this showed up at a tasting...

Mental note to Ryan, save this wine for when you meet Jonathan

May just have to do that. Jonathan, where are you located?

I'm in DC. I'm sure I can put together a group who will bring enough of other things to make opening this be an act of intellectual curiosity.

I didn't say I'd buy the stuff. I said that since you had, there are ways not to eat your gut about it.

I'm in DC.

At American University?

I'm in DC.

At American University?

Indeed. How did you guess?

I'm in DC.

At American University?

Indeed. How did you guess?

I Googled you.

Ryan,

Look at it as an adventure. As long as you didn't have to spend rent, or food money you can look at it as a learning experience. I've got a 1956 Paul Masson Zinfandel that I have really low hopes for. But you just never know...

!956 Paul Masson Zin, how much did they pay you to take it away?

Man, all this talk about music for dead people. How about a jig or a reel? We do it differently in New Orleans.

!956 Paul Masson Zin, how much did they pay you to take it away?

Two bottles for $6! A bad deal at half the price.

I Googled you.

Well the story about the Tijuana jail and the drug deal gone south is all a lie.

So, yes, bummed, and thinking "what kind of utter idiot puts an impulsive bid in on wine/vintage he doesn't actually know about without doing any research first!?!"

All of us who claim to be even remotely experienced wine folks have made this mistake. More often than any of us would like to admit. I've done it an embarrassingly high number of times.

So don't fret about it. When you go to taste the wine, don't expect anything of it. You might be surprised. Or then again, not. Old wine is always a crapshoot.

However bad your experience with this wine, believe me, it can't possibly compare with my disappointment today when I opened a treasured bottle of 1991 Chateau Montelena Estate Cabernet Sauvignon and found it utterly and horribly corked! That was the 2nd to last bottle I had in my cellar. I opened the last bottle, and it was glorious. But that was a long and caring investment in time and money down the drain, all because of a couple of square inches of faulty enclosure. Down with corks!

-Paul W.

This is the kind of purchase that may work out and shock you. I still remember a 1965 Giscours that was surprisingly pleasant or tha 1984 Chave that i forgot to drink and when I pulled it out expecting a lot of nastiness, it was quite lovely. I can assure you that 1982 was a better vintage than 1984.

I assume the pricing was low, so you have a bottle that is a talking point (bring a back-up) at the very least, and may even surprise you.