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WTN: Magnum of 86 Lynch-Bages and an orgy of premox

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WTN: Magnum of 86 Lynch-Bages and an orgy of premox

by Oswaldo Costa » Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:44 am

Dinner at my sister's after a mass in honor of a dear aunt from Rio de Janeiro who passed away last week. Present were her four sons, some of whom are like brothers to me, so, in her memory, I decided to pull out perhaps the most "impressive" bottle I have. But first some whites from my sister's cellar:

1999 Roux Pére et Fils Chassagne Montrachet Les Macherelles
First bottle of this was premoxed. Second bottle of this was premoxed. Third bottle of this was premoxed. Fourth and last bottle of this was premoxed. All corks looked fine. Who do we hang/maim/torture/decapitate?

1999 Jean Boillot Puligny Montrachet Clos de la Mouchere
Two bottles of this, on the other hand, were quite drinkable, with a light almond nuttiness that seemed to herald incipient oxidation, but which did not interfere too much with the white flowers, oaky butter and well-rounded mouth-feel that struggled to overcome the pretty but inappropriate chalice.

1986 Chateau Lynch-Bages Pauillac
From magnum. The unveiling of this produced the desired oohs and aahs around the table. Mature aromas of barnyard, plum, blackberries and cedar. Some mould, possibly a touch of brett, and a fair amount of burnt rubber, possibly from oxidised mercaptans. Medium mouth weight, well integrated tannins. Elegant, but not a powerhouse. In the grand scheme of things, it served its noble mission well.

1999 Castelgiocondo Brunello di Montalcino
By then I was too far gone except to note that it was tough and unyielding. All my bottles of this have been disappointing. Perhaps it's much too young and will some day come around, though its toughness feels irretrievable from the dark side. After all, the geezers who own this winery certainly don't look too good in Mondovino (much as I dislike that travesty of a movie).
Last edited by Oswaldo Costa on Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I went on a rigorous diet that eliminated alcohol, fat and sugar. In two weeks, I lost 14 days." Tim Maia, Brazilian singer-songwriter.
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Re: WTN: Magnum of 86 Lynch-Bages and an orgy of pre-mox

by David M. Bueker » Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:51 am

There's all kinds of theories about the causes of premox. Reduced sulfur levels is the one that makes the most sense to me, but what do I know.

Sorry about the 4 bottles.

The Lynch Bages sounds lovely. The Brunello sounds like it might have had some Cabernet illegally added to it. There is no reason you should not be able to get pleasure from that wine at 10 years of age.
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Re: WTN: Magnum of 86 Lynch-Bages and an orgy of pre-mox

by Oswaldo Costa » Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:59 am

David M. Bueker wrote:There's all kinds of theories about the causes of premox. Reduced sulfur levels is the one that makes the most sense to me, but what do I know.


By reduced sulfur levels, do you mean insufficient SO2 when bottling or reduced sulfur compounds like hydrogen sulphide, ethyl mercaptan, etc.?

Another possibility is oxigenation during racking and pumping.
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Re: WTN: Magnum of 86 Lynch-Bages and an orgy of pre-mox

by David M. Bueker » Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:06 am

Insufficient SO2 in bottling. And yes racking could contribute as your a million other things. I doubt we will ever know the true cause, and so I for one will only buy White Burgundy (or Chablis) for near term consumption.
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Re: WTN: Magnum of 86 Lynch-Bages and an orgy of premox

by Rahsaan » Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:46 am

Sorry to hear about the orgy!
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Re: WTN: Magnum of 86 Lynch-Bages and an orgy of premox

by David M. Bueker » Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:19 am

Rahsaan wrote:Sorry to hear about the orgy!


There's a phrase you don't see often. :wink:
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Re: WTN: Magnum of 86 Lynch-Bages and an orgy of pre-mox

by Nigel Groundwater » Sat Aug 15, 2009 4:18 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:Insufficient SO2 in bottling. And yes racking could contribute as your a million other things. I doubt we will ever know the true cause, and so I for one will only buy White Burgundy (or Chablis) for near term consumption.

Firstly Oswaldo commiserations over such a lousy pox experience :(

And David, as you suggest reduction in SO2 usage and other winemaking procedures such as increased racking and batonnage are logical, probably prime, suspects. However from a more general perspective the truth is presumably tied up with changes made by producers on a pretty widespread basis from the mid 90s when the pox seemed to expand enormously as a phenomenon and was possibly connected with contemporaneous general drives to reduce sulphur and produce wines that were based on riper grapes and required less ageing.

Changes in corks: the quality of the raw material, chemical washes [in favour of peroxide to exclude halogenated products], surface treatments [silicone replacing paraffin wax or used over it] have also been mooted as a contributory factor. Some have argued that it has been the major problem basing their conclusion on the often random nature of the pox in a case of wine.

Changes in bottle manufacture, particularly in the neck of the bottle and in bottling lines and how these have interacted with the corks - particularly oxygen entrainment and the effect of head pressures on wine development.

And the effect of new presses and gentler pressing changing the phenolic content and reducing the natural anti-oxidants in the wine coupled with changes in winemaking practices such as batonnage which would also affect the oxidation potential of the wine.
Plus the use of wood in the elevage versus stainless steel, short versus longer settling times prior to bottling, the timing of the malolactic and on and on.

However I can always recall some degree of pox in white burgundies even in the 60s but the incidence was orders of magnitude less than its acceleration in the early noughties [2002 onwards] with the mid 90s vintages - and basically everything since although the incidence has appeared to vary by vintage. 2002 is the one that seems to be deteriorating fastest these days although probably because it is the latest to be exposed. Some are even saying that 2004 has started to show although I haven’t seen any that young.

IMO the pox is just old fashioned oxidation [white burgundy always ultimately oxidised] brought forward and made more random. It seems feasible that changes in winemaking has played a major role in the former making the wine going into the bottle more prone to oxidation while changes in cork treatments, bottle manufacture/finish and bottling processes are likely to have played a role in the latter.

We may, as you say, never know the true cause but I suspect that is because there is no one cause although I do believe the producers and oenologists who have been studying the problem are closing in on the most important factors. And certain producers have already taken steps to deal with what they believe has been behind problems with their wines.

Like you I don’t buy white burgundy for long keeping but the truth is I never did and I have only bought mature wines infrequently and usually for immediate consumption. I have hardly ever bought Grand Cru Burgundy [only Chablis] and even with young Chablis GCs it is rare for us to wait beyond 10 years and a case will always have been sampled as early as year 6. Even earlier for 1er cru white burgundies, starting at 4 and not usually lasting beyond 8 but in any event putting us in a situation where we are able to observe the development on a regular basis and choose our rate of consumption accordingly.

All of which might explain why our experience of the pox has been lighter than many. Drinking early and having a higher than average consumption of Chablis [not that it has been exempt], Maconnais and Cote Chalonnaise wines probably explains more too.

All of which is a long-winded way of saying that I am more hopeful of a way out of this problem although I won’t be buying white burgundies requiring significant aging just yet either.
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Re: WTN: Magnum of 86 Lynch-Bages and an orgy of premox

by Oswaldo Costa » Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:38 pm

Thanks for that, Nigel. The Jamie Goode article on oxigen & wine (I posted the link today) has some very interesting additional points about the effects of the oxigen that may lie between the cork and the wine at bottling (what he calls headspace) for those who don't use vacuum or onert gas:

"Our results show that headspace oxygen, which has largely been ignored by the industry, is a critical factor impacting wine development and, more specifically, a wine's oxidation resistance influencing shelf-life performance"
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Re: WTN: Magnum of 86 Lynch-Bages and an orgy of premox

by Victorwine » Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:25 pm

Hi Oswaldo,
Sorry to hear about your aunt and sorry about the wines. It seems to me you are following this “premox” thing pretty closely. Do you notice it more in “standard” size bottles (750 mls or .75 L bottles) or do you notice it with the same frequency in larger formatted bottles (1.5 L bottles or bigger)? I think it would be interesting to compare the same White Burgundy from two different size bottles side by side.

Salute
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Re: WTN: Magnum of 86 Lynch-Bages and an orgy of premox

by Oswaldo Costa » Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:30 am

Victorwine wrote:Hi Oswaldo,
Sorry to hear about your aunt and sorry about the wines. It seems to me you are following this “premox” thing pretty closely. Do you notice it more in “standard” size bottles (750 mls or .75 L bottles) or do you notice it with the same frequency in larger formatted bottles (1.5 L bottles or bigger)? I think it would be interesting to compare the same White Burgundy from two different size bottles side by side.

Salute


Hi, Victor, the closest thing to what you describe is the experience I've been having with 375s. and 750s of 2002 Lynch Bages Blanc. Early last year I bough a sixpack of each from different retailers and have been trying them since. All, without exception, have been premoxed, some more, some less, but always enough to take pleasure out of the equation. In all cases, corks have been pristine. I did not pay attention to whether the 375s were worse than the 750s, on average. If they were, this might point to headroom oxygen as the culprit. I'll pay more attention to this in the remaning (now very few) bottles. If headroom oxygen is the culprit, screwcaps would not have saved them!
"I went on a rigorous diet that eliminated alcohol, fat and sugar. In two weeks, I lost 14 days." Tim Maia, Brazilian singer-songwriter.
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Re: WTN: Magnum of 86 Lynch-Bages and an orgy of premox

by Agostino Berti » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:20 pm

Hello Osawaldo!!

Very sorry to hear about the Burgundy fiasco. I would say there may be a simple answer to that premox situation: shoddy winemaking. That's the problem with wine areas that fetch such high prices - it leads to greed and lazyness. The problem in your situation is probably that the producer doesn't reduce yields cause he's getting so much money for his wines that he wants to make as much as possible, resulting in a wine that doesn't have enough concentration to live 10 yrs., no matter how noble the "terroir" is - sadly, even if you don't buy from him next time, some neophyte drinker fool will, and so this natural market deterrent is by-passed. (Then again, you may have done your research before buying and this was just a freak glitch.)

Its so sad when we are bamboozled into buying "the world's greatest wines" for crazy prices and then they underperform. I pretty much stay away from all famous areas these days. I haven't been to Barolo country in years even though its only a couple hours drive from here. When I was in the US I had a "lowly" Chinon 1989 and it was exceptional.

I think, for the most part, there are no "great" viticultural areas, its mostly the work of great winemakers. Put a hard-working, talented, passionate winemaker anywhere and he'll probably craft a good wine.

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Agostino
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Re: WTN: Magnum of 86 Lynch-Bages and an orgy of premox

by Rahsaan » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:24 pm

Agostino Berti wrote:I think, for the most part, there are no "great" viticultural areas, its mostly the work of great winemakers. Put a hard-working, talented, passionate winemaker anywhere and he'll probably craft a good wine.


Good is not the same thing as great. I agree that hardworking winemakers can make interesting wine from all sorts of locations, but from my perspective terroir is not a myth and you can't get the same levels of elegance and complexity from all patches of land.
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Re: WTN: Magnum of 86 Lynch-Bages and an orgy of premox

by David M. Bueker » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:26 pm

Agostino Berti wrote:The problem in your situation is probably that the producer doesn't reduce yields cause he's getting so much money for his wines that he wants to make as much as possible, resulting in a wine that doesn't have enough concentration to live 10 yrs., no matter how noble the "terroir" is - sadly, even if you don't buy from him next time, some neophyte drinker fool will, and so this natural market deterrent is by-passed.


Considering that the premox problem is an epidemic, and affects even top producers I highly doubt the yield explanation.
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