The place for all things wine, focused on serious wine discussions.
User avatar
User

Bob Parsons Alberta

Rank

aka Doris

Posts

10302

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:09 pm

WTN: An interesting 100% Touriga Nacional from Estremadura!

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:52 am

Many here know of my interest for wines from Portugal and I have a fine selection in my cellar. I am familiar with the blends but a 100% T. Nacional is quite different in my opinion and I am not quite sure how to compare to other blended Portuguese reds.

WTN: `01 Touriga Nacional Grand`Arte Estremadura, DFJ Vinhos Portugal.

Short/soaked natural cork, 14% alc, $25 Cdn. Cellared three years, opened and should have decanted? Just a slight trace of sediment. Back label mentions "natural product". There are many commercial styles from DFJ, 40 lines in all I believe. Jamie Goode mentions "middling sort of reputation" on his website. Any how, here goes!

Color. Very different, almost port-like, black center, ruby tinges on the rim. Unusual in my book.

Nose. Lots going on here over 24 hrs. Initially thought quite funky, in fact wondered about TCA? The nose is not port-like, notes mention black cherry, raspberry, smokey, "menthol" from across the table. As it opens, meaty and violets but could not find any "dried rasins" one might associate with TN.

Palate. Initial entry thoughts were dry, tannic, cherry, black fruits, tad vegetal on a short finish. Medium acidity and did not find a lot of finesse here at first but over the evening, some big changes. A much softer finish (especially on day two), wallops of cherry and blackberry coming through. It is still a tad short on the finish but a much more approachable wine 24 hrs later.I did not find this wine port-like at best and wish I had another bottle for further research!

All comments welcome naturally!
User avatar
User

Oswaldo Costa

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

1918

Joined

Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:30 am

Location

São Paulo, Brazil

Re: WTN: An interesting 100% Touriga Nacional from Estremadura!

by Oswaldo Costa » Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:27 pm

Bob Parsons Alberta. wrote:Many here know of my interest for wines from Portugal and I have a fine selection in my cellar.
´

Marcia and I are going to spend New Year´s on Madeira, preceded by a few days in Lisbon, when we hope to taste the strange pé franco wines of Colares. After New Year´s, we´ll spend a few days in Bairrada and Douro, before spending two days in Porto and heading home. My highest hopes are for Bairrada, where we´ll visit Luis Pato, Casa do Canto, Sidonio Sousa, Quinta de Bageiras and Casa de Saima, the latter two recommended by Joe Moryl. In Douro we only have two visits planned, at Poeira and Niepoort, since Crasto didn´t answer my emails. Shud B fun!
"I went on a rigorous diet that eliminated alcohol, fat and sugar. In two weeks, I lost 14 days." Tim Maia, Brazilian singer-songwriter.
no avatar
User

Joe Moryl

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

978

Joined

Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:38 pm

Location

New Jersey, USA

Re: WTN: An interesting 100% Touriga Nacional from Estremadura!

by Joe Moryl » Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:02 pm

Bob,

It is interesting to try wines made from Touriga, but ultimately I think it is best in a blend like the ones we typically find in the Douro. Another nice QPR pure Touriga from Estremadura is the one made by Quinta da Cortezia. The 2004 or 2005 vintage goes for around $15 in my area and, to contradict what I say above, is even slightly more interesting than their Reserva blend. And Aveleda bottles a pure Touriga from Bairrada under their Follies line (at a similar pricepoint to the above) = the '05 is a big meaty wine, a bit more woolly than the Cortezia.

Oswaldo,

You have a good list of places to visit. I found it hard to visit more than two wineries a day in Portugal. Many places just aren't set up so that visits are a big part of their business = lack of maps, signage, long lunches (with wine, of course), crazy roads - they all combine to make it tough. Have you thought about visiting Dao Sul's Quinta do Encontro or Campolargo, both near Anadia (Bairrada)? While they may be labeled modernists (to a degree), they are both well set up to receive visitors, are doing some interesting things and Encontro is supposed to have a good restaurant.

In the Douro I didn't visit Niepoort or Poeira, since I didn't have a chance to arrange visits in advance. A few good places that you can just drop in on (giving a call would be a good idea) are Quinta de la Rosa ('07 wines are excellent, IMO), Vallado, and Pacheca. Crasto is in a pretty isolated but beautiful spot - might be worth a phone call when you get there.
User avatar
User

Bob Parsons Alberta

Rank

aka Doris

Posts

10302

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:09 pm

Re: WTN: An interesting 100% Touriga Nacional from Estremadura!

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:07 am

Thanks Joe. You picked up on my question/thoughts about blending very well. I am familiar with these varietals but a 100% TN is a different kettle of fish altogether! Your insight is very useful as always.

Oswaldo, do try to visit Crasto! I hear one can spend a whole day there, no problem.
User avatar
User

Oswaldo Costa

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

1918

Joined

Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:30 am

Location

São Paulo, Brazil

Re: WTN: An interesting 100% Touriga Nacional from Estremadura!

by Oswaldo Costa » Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:42 am

Thanks for the ideas and encouragement! While doing my research, I got the impression that Bairrada is more interesting than Douro for acidic old-fashioned reds, the former being so traditional that, the pendulum having swung, they are now unwittingly interesting again, while the latter came recently to the game with lots of capital and adopted a more international style. I'm also more and more turned off by large wineries, so didn't think to visit Dao Sul or anything like that, even though I admire their capacity for producing excellent QPRs. I figure their "better" wines probably just mean more oak and concentration. Campolargo I dismissed, perhaps too quickly, as too modern, but given the time constraints, they seem OK to ignore. The winemaker for de la Rosa is Jorge Moreira, who owns Poeira, so I figured Poeira would be a twofer. Maybe he'll tell me to go there too. I hear the owner is very nice. Vallado, I hear are more modern, so may drop by without an appointment just to visit the property. Pacheca I looked into but was'nt particularly drawn, so will look again. OK, OK, I'll give Crasto another chance! :)
"I went on a rigorous diet that eliminated alcohol, fat and sugar. In two weeks, I lost 14 days." Tim Maia, Brazilian singer-songwriter.
no avatar
User

Joe Moryl

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

978

Joined

Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:38 pm

Location

New Jersey, USA

Re: WTN: An interesting 100% Touriga Nacional from Estremadura!

by Joe Moryl » Fri Dec 18, 2009 8:46 pm

I didn't find the Vallado wines particularly modernist, no more so than what I've had from Crasto (which I didn't get to visit). My main complaint is that their basic Douro red is sort of simple (you can usually do better) while the reserve bottlings are much better but extremely expensive (for what they are). BTW, I stayed at Quinta de Macedos, a few kilometers up the Rio Torto from the Douro. You might want to have a visit - Paul Reynolds has some beautifully sited old vines, and uses minimal intervention and very traditional methods (e.g. foot trod in granite lagres) to make some great wines.
User avatar
User

Oswaldo Costa

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

1918

Joined

Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:30 am

Location

São Paulo, Brazil

Re: WTN: An interesting 100% Touriga Nacional from Estremadura!

by Oswaldo Costa » Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:10 am

Joe Moryl wrote:BTW, I stayed at Quinta de Macedos, a few kilometers up the Rio Torto from the Douro. You might want to have a visit - Paul Reynolds has some beautifully sited old vines, and uses minimal intervention and very traditional methods (e.g. foot trod in granite lagres) to make some great wines.


Thanks for the tip, that's what I'm most interested in visiting. No traditional v. modern experiments this time!
"I went on a rigorous diet that eliminated alcohol, fat and sugar. In two weeks, I lost 14 days." Tim Maia, Brazilian singer-songwriter.
no avatar
User

Victor de la Serna

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

305

Joined

Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:50 pm

Location

Madrid, Spain

Re: WTN: An interesting 100% Touriga Nacional from Estremadura!

by Victor de la Serna » Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:32 am

Francisco Olazabal, the winemaker at Quinta do Vallado, is also the winemaker and co-owner of Quinta do Vale Meão, so the two share the same winemaking philosophy. No international modernism there. I just had the 2000 Meão on Saturday, and it's aging very well (not yet at its peak, I think).

My own take on Douro touriga nacional is that the slate soil and hot climate make it a little too showy and obvious – possibly not the ideal for dry table wines if not in a blend, even though some pure varietals like Quinta do Crasto Touriga Nacional can be quite stunning. I think the acid granite soils of the cooler Dão, the variety's birthplace, produce more elegant wines. I grow it on limestone in high altitude in Spain, and it also does well there (but that's of course my quite interested opinion.)
User avatar
User

Oswaldo Costa

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

1918

Joined

Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:30 am

Location

São Paulo, Brazil

Re: WTN: An interesting 100% Touriga Nacional from Estremadura!

by Oswaldo Costa » Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:59 am

Victor de la Serna wrote:My own take on Douro touriga nacional is that the slate soil and hot climate make it a little too showy and obvious – possibly not the ideal for dry table wines if not in a blend, even though some pure varietals like Quinta do Crasto Touriga Nacional can be quite stunning. I think the acid granite soils of the cooler Dão, the variety's birthplace, produce more elegant wines. I grow it on limestone in high altitude in Spain, and it also does well there (but that's of course my quite interested opinion.)


A few months ago I went to a Dão & Bairrada tasting conducted by Luis Pato in which he, indeed, claimed these regions to be more suited for Touriga. Though an interested party, he seemed honest and sincere.
"I went on a rigorous diet that eliminated alcohol, fat and sugar. In two weeks, I lost 14 days." Tim Maia, Brazilian singer-songwriter.
User avatar
User

Bob Parsons Alberta

Rank

aka Doris

Posts

10302

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:09 pm

Re: WTN: An interesting 100% Touriga Nacional from Estremadura!

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:41 pm

Victor de la Serna wrote:Francisco Olazabal, the winemaker at Quinta do Vallado, is also the winemaker and co-owner of Quinta do Vale Meão, so the two share the same winemaking philosophy. No international modernism there. I just had the 2000 Meão on Saturday, and it's aging very well (not yet at its peak, I think).

My own take on Douro touriga nacional is that the slate soil and hot climate make it a little too showy and obvious – possibly not the ideal for dry table wines if not in a blend, even though some pure varietals like Quinta do Crasto Touriga Nacional can be quite stunning. I think the acid granite soils of the cooler Dão, the variety's birthplace, produce more elegant wines. I grow it on limestone in high altitude in Spain, and it also does well there (but that's of course my quite interested opinion.)


Thanks Victor, I am doing some catch-up here after the hols in Medicine Hat. I really have to spend more time drinking the vaste cache of Portugal reds I have here!!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 33 guests

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign
cron