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WTN: WLDG Aging Experiment (Muscadet, Riesling, Burg)

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WTN: WLDG Aging Experiment (Muscadet, Riesling, Burg)

by David M. Bueker » Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:35 am

Last night was the tasting of the 9 bottles stored over a two year period for the “WLDG Aging Experiment.” Clearly this was not a controlled experiment, but rather an attempt to get a glimpse into what might happen with sub-optimal/poor storage versus controlled/good storage over a moderate length of time.

Preface:

The bottles I selected were stored in 3 separate conditions for 2 years and 14 days.

1 bottle of each wine was kept in my climate controlled cellar with temperature variation from about 54-57 degrees Fahrenheit.

1 bottle of each wine was stored in my basement but outside of the wine cellar with slow seasonal temperature variation from 54 degrees to 70 degrees Fahrenheit.

1 bottle of each wine was stored in an upstairs closet in the living section of our house with seasonal temperature variation from 58 degrees (winter) to about 74 degrees (summer) with occasional spikes to 80 degrees during the July/August timeframe. Daily temps in the May-September timeframe can vary from the low 60s to nearly 80.

The wines were served blind, with nobody knowing which bottle was which (not even me).

Warm up wine:

2008 Wind Gap Trousseau Gris
Crisp, light fruit is a positive but there’s not much there. It’s somewhat bland, and no particular element of the wine makes any kind of lasting impression. It’s probably ok as an alcohol delivery system, but no better than that.

First flight: 2005 Domaine de la Pépière (Marc Ollivier) Muscadet de Sèvre-et-Maine Sur Lie Vieilles Vignes Clos des Briords

Bottle 1: Very bright & fresh – good saline minerality & fruit. Excellent.
Bottle 2: Slightly rounder than bottle 1. Shows more evolved fruit, but the same fine minerals
Bottle 3: Mute on the nose. Softer mouth feel than bottle 1 or 2. Lack of freshness but would still be quite good if not compared to the prior bottles.

Consensus favorite was bottle 1 which was stored in the basement (not the wine cellar). Consensus pick for most evolved was bottle 3 which was from the upstairs closet. Everyone really liked bottles 1 and 2 and most folks liked #3.

Second flight: 2006 Gysler Weinheimer Riesling Kabinett (Rheinhessen)

Bottle 1: Petrol, but bright fruit blasts through it. Long finish of sweet peach fruit. Very good.
Bottle 2: Quite similar to the first bottle but not quite as forward.
Bottle 3: Closed. A little bitter on the finish. Swirling made a difference, but this never came out to play.

Consensus favorite was bottle 1 which was from the upstairs closet!
Consensus pick for most evolved was bottle 3 which was from the wine cellar!

Well this was an unexpected result. When wine 1 was so bright and fresh I really expected that to be the bottle from the wine cellar. I am at a loss to explain this one. Perhaps the cellared bottle has closed down while the bottles exposed to more temperature variation have not? This was a weird outcome to say the least.

Third flight: 2005 Faiveley Mercurey La Framboisière

Bottle 1: Rather acidic, tart red fruit with a slight herbal component.
Bottle 2: Virtually indistinguishable from bottle 1
Bottle 3: Showing more on the nose, but not sure everything that’s there is good (brett?). Rather bitter on the finish.

Bottles 1 and 2 pretty much split the field for favorite, and they were from the basement and wine cellar.
Bottle 3 was consensus pick for most evolved and was from the upstairs closet.

I should note that the Faiveley was much more enjoyable with some of the grilled sausages. They tamed the acidity. I did not enjoy drinking the wine on its own from any bottle.

Conclusions
I would call these rather inconclusive results. Of course I am now much less worried about short term cellaring in the basement, but would likely still shy away from the upstairs closet. ;)

None of the wines were clearly damaged, and there was virtually no color difference on any of them. The dominant discussion was whether the upstairs closet really had enough extremes in temperature to do much to a wine. As has been mentioned in earlier threads this may have been too short a time period. I think I will put some more bottles (different wines) aside for a longer period (5 years) to see if that makes any more meaningful difference.

Bonus Pours

2008 Anthill Farms Pinot Noir (Anderson Valley)
Served blind as well, I guessed what it was due to clues I had been given earlier. Red fruit and bacon/smoke on the nose. Very silky and fruity on the palate with a lingering smokiness on the finish. This is clearly unusual but it was so darned delicious. Everyone liked it, despite the undeniable fact that it is marked by smoke from the 2008 fires.

1999 Domaine Auguste Clape Cornas Renaissance
(cue Steve Howe) Funky, meaty and tasty. This is fairly high acid, but has the stuffing to back it up. Not everyone was a fan of the funkiness or the acidity though. I have some of the regular Cornas and that will sleep for a long while yet.

1999 Tardieu-Laurent Cornas Vieilles Vignes
Richer and much more forward than the Clape (cue Steve Howe). This is quite sweet in its fruit and doesn’t have the pronounced meatiness of the prior wine. I like it as a very fun bottle, but it does not seem so Cornas to me. It’s too polished.
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Re: WTN: WLDG Aging Experiment (Muscadet, Riesling, Burg)

by Kelly Young » Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:23 am

While not completely scientifically conclusive, I think the methodology of the testing is good enough for me. The will to not try to poke in on the bottles and see what was going on over the past two years, well I'm impressed.

I have to say, and I think I speak for all paranoid passive cellar types, apartment dwellers, and various folks with less the ideal storage scenarios, that outside of the aforementioned long term high end wine scenarios I think we can feel a bit more comfortable that our relatively short term storage situations are probably not going to kill any wine.

Is there some sort of medal you get for offering this service? The Legion du Vin In Le Closet?
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Re: WTN: WLDG Aging Experiment (Muscadet, Riesling, Burg)

by David M. Bueker » Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:48 am

No medals required Kelly. There were actually three of us who did this (Dale Williams and Mark Lipton as well) & I'm not sure we proved much...
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Re: WTN: WLDG Aging Experiment (Muscadet, Riesling, Burg)

by Mark Lipton » Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:51 am

Well done, David, and interesting results! Having downed a number of bottles of that '06 Gysler Kab (great QPR wine) myself, I find that showing from the cellared bottle anomalous indeed. Perhaps most interesting was the showing of the '08 Wind Gap Trousseau Gris. I recently had a bottle of that at an offline in Oakland and it was fascinating to me: very large scale and herbal with some of the wackier aromatics I've encountered in a while. De gustibus...

Mark Lipton

p.s. I've still got 4 more bottles in the queue. Just waiting for the high temps to abate so that I can drink big reds with comfort.
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Re: WTN: WLDG Aging Experiment (Muscadet, Riesling, Burg)

by David M. Bueker » Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:02 pm

Mark,

The Trousseau surprised me. Ihave readgood things about it & it showed me nothing. Half the bottle was left, so I capped it & put it in the fridge. Will re-visit tonight.
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Re: WTN: WLDG Aging Experiment (Muscadet, Riesling, Burg)

by Salil » Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:32 pm

Kelly Young wrote:While not completely scientifically conclusive, I think the methodology of the testing is good enough for me. The will to not try to poke in on the bottles and see what was going on over the past two years, well I'm impressed.

He has enough other things in his cellar to keep him occupied. ;)

Thanks for hosting us David, as always a very fun evening and very eye-opening to see those results. Among the bonus wines, really loved the bacon/smoky elements on the Anthill (it didn't taste like a Pinot at all, though in this case I certainly didn't mind) and while the Clape started out rather funky and a bit awkward for me, I found it much more enjoyable with some time.
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Re: WTN: WLDG Aging Experiment (Muscadet, Riesling, Burg)

by Tim York » Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:07 pm

An interesting report. Were there any marked differences in humidity and light between the three storage locations? A few years ago, RVF did some experiments which suggested that light exposure could be one of most damaging environments for wine, particularly white.

I interpret the Gysler experience to reveal different stages of emergence from a closed period.

Most of the other differences sound well within the range of ordinary bottle variation, although brett on the Mercurey may have been enhanced by greater ambient warmth.

I guess that the differences on a 10 year experiment will be much more marked.
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Re: WTN: WLDG Aging Experiment (Muscadet, Riesling, Burg)

by David M. Bueker » Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:09 pm

Tim

I would say that the light exposure was similar for all three, though the darkest was clearly the closet.

Humidity is probably about the same in all 3 locations.
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Re: WTN: WLDG Aging Experiment (Muscadet, Riesling, Burg)

by Dale Williams » Fri Apr 16, 2010 3:40 pm

thanks, interesting add to the mix.
None of us who have reported had really drastic temps for our non controlled bottles, I think that plus relatively short period kept differences from being too extreme.
I think Tim's right about the Gylser being in different stages of "closed"
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Re: WTN: WLDG Aging Experiment (Muscadet, Riesling, Burg)

by J Bouchard » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:41 pm

(hey first post, woohooo)

David,
Thanks for the tasting last night, due to my tastes flight B was my favorite of the night but I did enjoy #2 in flight A as well. I just did not get flight C at all.

The Anthill was interesting to me, it had me confused, syrah on the nose but pinot on the palate. I had never tried this wine before and was unaware of the fire situation but maybe there is something to that. It definitely had a smokiness to it, but I thought it was a nice refined Cali pinot and I enjoyed it.

I also enjoyed both of the 99 Cornas and echo Salil's sentiments that the Clape was improving as the night went on. I would be interested to see how it is showing with even more air. The TL was very nice imo, glad we have people in our group that travel with a bottle of Cornas on them at all times :D

Another fun tasting, thanks for hosting.
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Re: WTN: WLDG Aging Experiment (Muscadet, Riesling, Burg)

by David M. Bueker » Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:46 pm

Welcome to the WLDG Jeff!

(Jeff is part of the tasting group I am in with Salil & Spencer to name a few - I keep trying to drag all of the guys over here...)

By the way, I had the remains of the Wind Gap Trousseau Gris tonight & it was essentially characterless. Bleh! So now I am 2 for 4 on Wind Gap wines being interesting. While .500 is amazing in baseball it's not so great in wine.
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Re: WTN: WLDG Aging Experiment (Muscadet, Riesling, Burg)

by Dale Williams » Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:00 pm

One can't always count on people understanding online humor, so I dropped my idea of ragging on Mr Bouchard not caring for the Faiveley (you see, Boucard is also the name of 2 Burgundy negociants -aw, if you have to explain a joke./.......)

In any case welcome Jeff!

Now if David puts away some Cornas for next experiment, I'm there!
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Re: WTN: WLDG Aging Experiment (Muscadet, Riesling, Burg)

by David M. Bueker » Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:19 pm

Dale Williams wrote:
Now if David puts away some Cornas for next experiment, I'm there!


That might be getting a little out there, but St. Joseph is not beyond the pale.
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Re: WTN: WLDG Aging Experiment (Muscadet, Riesling, Burg)

by Ian Sutton » Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:03 pm

One thing seems to have emerged from the experiments... that it's really not as simple as all wines reacting the same. Bad storage could indeed conceivably make a wine more approachable, perhaps hitting a (lower) peak earlier. Speaking hypothetically of course.

What's very interesting with your test David, is how bad conditions made for more marked differences than the passive vs. optimal storage. This stacks up with much anecdotal evidence (about decent passive cellaring), so provides further food for thought (though I fully agree that there's no justification for firm conclusions, as you acknowledged from the outset).

Good work all!

regards

Ian
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Re: WTN: WLDG Aging Experiment (Muscadet, Riesling, Burg)

by Oswaldo Costa » Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:36 pm

The Clap is my all-time favorite acoustic guitar solo, thanks for bringing it back to mind! I saw him play it live at the Rainbow Theatre around 1971 or so, awesome.
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