Open Mike: Aged riesling, preferably german, preferably Mosel

After discussions with a fellow forumite (any guesses who? the clues abound) I propose an open mike this weekend to discover the joys and vagaries of aged riesling.

To tie this down a little more, if you have something from the Mosel, ideally from the last millenium (prior to 2000 before we get into that debate about exactly when the millenium finished). Kabinett, Spatlese, Auslese, even Trockenbeerenauslese (draws breath ) or other denomination? it matters not.

If you haven't got any aged german riesling, perhaps an aged example from Alsace, US, Canada, NZ, Australia, Austria or anywhere else this grape has established roots. If nothing else, crack a younger one and join in.

I'm hoping this should be quite an accessible open mike and one that even the less confident people will feel they can pass comment on. I'm also hoping it will coincide with a late summer in N. Hemisphere and a warming spring in the Southern Hemisphere.

For info I'll be digging out a bottle of either

1995 Fritz Becker Brauneberger Juffer-Sonnenuhr Riesling Kabinett (Germany, Mosel Saar Ruwer, Mosel)
or
1993 berner muller Trabener Wurzgarten Riesling Spätlese (Germany, Mosel Saar Ruwer, Mosel)

Neither of which are particularly classy producers, but we'll see what's in the bottle.

So go have a ferret in the cellar for those sleek riesling bottles and pop the cork on one of them - you know they're ready!

regards

Ian

Is there a site anyone can recommend to find some of this hard to find aged stuff?

Is there a site anyone can recommend to find some of this hard to find aged stuff?

Plenty of stuff back to the 19th century.
http://www.dvw.com/german.html
http://www.dvw.com/balz.html

Aaron
Apart from wine-searcher which I guess would be a bit unwieldy for this task, I think it's a case of keeping an eye out for merchants that carry some - or perhaps better, keeping an eye out for wine auctions, where there are some real bargains. For me, there's two good sources I've got in the UK. One is an independant merchant based in Cambridge, where the owner seems to have a penchant for such wines. The other is a national chain who often get a good parcel of aged german rieslings in. In both cases, these are wines lower down the quality scale (but IMO right at the peak of value). It almost feels easier to identify the more quality older rieslings, though their prices still seem quite firm.

Hopefully people will chime in with a good merchant or two (who stock some) in your area.

regards

Ian

Last evening I opened a `96 Scharzhofberger Riesling Kabinett from Hohe Domkirche, Trier. Absolutely delicious and still with some life!! Will post some notes tonight after I return from up north, doggy stuff to take care of!!

Otto, guess you are familar with the Scharzhofberger vineyard and why so famous? Well, heres a heads up. I have just opened a `96 Hohe Domkirche and it is delicious. Any experiences for you from here?...the vineyard that is!!

Bob, I have much too little experience with Scharzhofberg. I'd love to have more, but I haven't had any opportunities to buy them. But I do love the '96 vintage, though many have thought it too prominently acidic.

WTN: `96 Scharzhofberger Riesling Kabinett-Hohe Domkirche, Trier, M-S-R.

I was not quite sure what to expect from this bottle and certainly had no inside information on this producer! One forumite in another thread was not too impressed with this winery, but I progress.........!

A.P# 3 56 012 2 03 97, Erzeugerabfllung, 8.5% alc, was opened 4 hours, excellent cork.

Colour. Medium gold with no rust.

Nose. Beautiful with lime, apple, brief hint of gasolein. Also some mineralls and spice, orange peel as opposed to marmalade.

Palate. Nice smooth mouthfeel entry, off-dry, quince and apricot. Good acidity and in very fair shape-not bad for ten years old. Citrus finish, tangy lime. There was some initial spritz on opening, but quickly dissipates. This has some class and I really enjoyed this one over a 24 hour period. No sign of decline overnight. Bet the spatlese was something to die for!

Cost unknown.


WTN: `97 Riesling Bin 7 Clare Valley, Leasingham.

Purchased 4 bottles from a no-name store years ago, this is #3 and not too impressive this time around. Seems to be fast deterrioration in last two years.

Colour is a medium gold and no legs. On the nose some lime, apple and just a hint of some tropical fruit (pineapple?). No petroleum products here!
The palate is overall a bust! Some flinty tones and peach, unmemorable finish but big downturn since last time. This should have tasted better than this, obviously not built to last..or a bad bottle. Previous notes seem to wax lyrical, agh well.

Cost was $16 Cdn.

Hi Ian, I haven't been much active here lately, so I'm not quite sure about this "open mike" concept, but it seems that I'm a tad late if the notes were supposed to have been posted during the weekend.
However, since I happened to have a fresh note of an aged Rheingau Riesling, as well as some remnants from the tasting of it still in my fridge, I thought I'd post my notes now anyway, so here they are:

WTN: 1990 Rauenthaler Baiken Riesling auslese, Staatsweingüter, Rheingau

Colour Rather deep yellow/orange

Nose Wonderfully developed Riesling with those slightly burned notes htat the Germans call Firne. Also honey and a whiff of rubber.

Palate Sweetish attack with a wonderfully developing fresh and spicy acidity. Chewable texture, medium body. Very long delightfully fresh aftertaste, almost dry and with a slight bitterness in the end.

High class wine from a great vintage! And, in fact, one of the most prestigiuos vineyards of the Rheingau. One that one don't often see wine from, though. Not sure about why, really. Tiny vineyard? Lack of quality producers?

Cheers, Anders

Anders
No rules or deadlines (that I'm aware of ), just a chance to post on a similar subject and see the variations on a theme. I came late to the concept, but I've definitely warmed to it. Bob P and myself thought this would run for a good few days (and logically the low alcohol helps (non Trocken) german riesling be a very attractive proposition mid-week). Otto's got some good ideas lined up for future weekends, but anyone can start it going.

Great to see both the texture and the remarkable ability to make a (very)sweet wine seem almost dry. Sounds a treat.

thanks for the note

regards

Ian

Ok, if the deadline is not over, then I can cross post these from a post I made this weekend that people may or may not have read.

And, I'm no expert but earlier this year I had a lovely 89 Kloster Eberbach Rauenthaler Baiken Auslese that was gorgeous at first, until it fell apart. But I have no idea about size of vineyard??


1959 Kloster Eberbach Schonberger Herrenwinger Auslese Auction
This caresses the tongue with weathered yet firm and juicy delicate celery/caraway seeds and just keeps pumping and pumping over several hours. Not the most complex, but the texture is so comfortable on my tongue. May I have another pour…

1966 Kloster Eberbach Rudesheimer Hinterhaus Spatlese Auction
Smoky and dusty, the fruit has left the bottle, a bit sour, a curiosity…

1975 Erben von Beulwitz Kaseler Nies’chen Spatlese
This needs air to open up, but when it does it laces the tongue with a lovely story of elegantly sour and spicy seeds, a lacy wispy firm pucker of a wine. Nice.

1976 Kloster Eberbach Kiedricher Grafenberg Auslese Auction
This needs tons of air as it is an unformed blob on opening, but with time it firms up and becomes juicy and delicious, gaining structure by the minute, but should really be left alone.

Great Rahsaan, I saw your notes and wondered about cross-posting! Pity about your `89, wines falling apart in the glass is a depressing experience!!!

Great Rahsaan, I saw your notes and wondered about cross-posting! Pity about your `89, wines falling apart in the glass is a depressing experience!!!

Yes, although it wasn't that bad, more of a reduction in the pleasure it gave when initially opened and also in comparison to other wines that day that gained pleasure with time. But if anyone has some they should not fear.

Interesting point. We all wonder about some of the wines in the cellar eh? Look at the downturn of my Leasingham `97.
I have to be honest, I probabaly have some real clunkers coming up this winter. I expect some treats from the `90 Bordeaux I have been squirreling away but am wondering if I was too ambitious!!? Just shrug the shoulder if they don`t work out eh and learn by the experience.

BTW, did you buy from Morenos when in London?

[James Roscoe]

Nice to know that 1959 was a good year for Germans as I am from that year and ethnic group. Nice tasting notes Rashaan. Do you think '05 won't be that great or were these just lesser vintners?

BTW, did you buy from Morenos when in London?

Yes, although I wonder if you're repeatedly grilling me on this point for a reason

Do you think '05 won't be that great or were these just lesser vintners?

Oh, I don't know that I'm in a position to answer that question. 05 was clearly very ripe, although apparently more homogeneous than 01. And I'm not sure these were all lesser vintners, but they are definitely not my favorites, in any year..

Grilling Rahsaan over Moreno wines!!...forumites in all my travels I have never come across a specialist store such as this one!! You want Spain? These guys deliver.

Grilling Rahsaan over Moreno wines!!...

I was just joking because I think you've asked the question several times. But it is an exceptional store.

One day I walked in when the father of one of the owners had just died. Said owner was visibly distraught and while I was in the shop he received a constant stream of good wishes from everyone in the neighborhood. He clearly wasn't in the mood to be selling wine, but he did manage to give me the run down on various wines before I made my purchase. Seemed like a very warm place.

They used to have a second store near Paddington station and one of the staff was Theo Sloot. Great character and vaste knowledge, used to judge at various shows. Just wish we had stores like that up here!!

1976 Kloster Eberbach Kiedricher Grafenberg Auslese Auction
This needs tons of air as it is an unformed blob on opening, but with time it firms up and becomes juicy and delicious, gaining structure by the minute, but should really be left alone.

Nice notes - and not often (barring Port) that drinking a 30 year old wine is considered vinfanticide!

regards

Ian

Nice notes - and not often (barring Port) that drinking a 30 year old wine is considered vinfanticide!

Yes, perhaps I was being harsh, it was certainly enjoyable, but it just seems like it will have so much more to give in the future..

But as always, YMMV

Time to resurrect this OM again! This time a Gymnasium wine from `99, a winery that appears (to some) to produce only so-so wines. Well, this one was delicious so read on.....>

WTN: `99 Oberemmeler Rosenberg Riesling Kabinett, F-W-Gymnasium M.S.R.

Think I paid around $26 Cdn four yrs ago. 8.5% alc, soaked cork, AP 3 561 024 08 00.

Color. Still looks quite youthful, light lemon. No crystals on the cork.

Nose. Pear, creamy, hot chocolate/cocoa mix. Good whiffs of petrol, lime, very attractive. Just singing after being open 5 hrs.

Palate. Initial entry thought was acidity holding it all together, great peach and citrus with almond and spice hints. Lingering puckery finish, white stone-fruits, good balance and drinking well now.
Staff at the Grill found "apricot, lime, orange on the finish...tastes like it smells!". Some might think a bit too sweet but still has excellent focus.
I had a great evening assisting at the Grill with frequent slurps when no-one was looking!

I might have something from the late 90's that would qualify. Will check before the weekend.

[David M. Bueker]

Just a procedural comment:

Resurrecting very old threads is not the best way to continue a discussion. If people have to wade through two pages of old information they may not persevere to the new data.

Why not open up a new thread? Open Mike is a focused, short-term discussion, not a permanent place for any data in the genre.

Yep, I got fooled into thinking this was a current thread for this weekend!