Sparkling wine question

On another board, for wine makers, someone posed the question "Why does force carbonation create shorted lived, bigger bubbles?" when comparing sparkling wine that is carbonated with CO2 to one that has gone through méthode champenoise. I didn't have a good answer, so I'm posting it here.

If the wines have been carbonated for the same amount of time, is it even true? if you aged a carbonated wine for the same amount of time that a method champenoise was aged, maybe they would be closer - the carbonation more integrated with smaller bubbles. of course each time a yeast cell converts a molecule of sugar a small amount of seperate CO2 is created. so the bubbles start small. but i still think the effect of age needs to be taken into account.

HI Howie,
You might find the following link interesting.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 075207.htm

Salute

Thanks Victor - that is very interesting.

I susbcribed to the belief that the smallest bubbles were in methode champenois wines until I had a sparkling sauvignon blanc made by The House of J C Le Roux (JCLR)

JCLR make only sparkling wines and they have two ranges, one methode champenois and the other injected CO2.

The sparkling sauvignon blanc was the second method. I wasn't expecting much but I was astonished how small the bubbles were and how many of the tiny bubbles were streaming to the surface. It looked the same to me as Champagne , which I drink regularly.

I don't know the science but I image that the size of bubbles on injected CO2 wines depends on how much CO2 is injected and under what pressure. Bubbles in drinks like Coca Cola are larger presumably because they use less pressue. But sparkling wine in thick champagne bottles with champagne corks (as used by JCLR) can take a higher pressure.

HI Howie,
You might find the following link interesting.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 075207.htm

he found that even though champagne and its close relative, sparkling wine, had about the same diffusion measurement for carbon dioxide, their bubble sizes were significantly different.

Based on his study, Liger-Belair says that other chemical components that are dispersed throughout champagne, including dissolved salts, carbohydrates, and minerals, play a bigger role than previously believed in the formation of its uniquely small bubbles.

Unfortunately the article doesn't say by what method was used to make the sparkling wine being compared with Champagne.

The article also doesn't say if the base wines were the same. That is, was he comparing the same wine whose only difference was in its method of carbonation.

He mentions the dissolved salts, carbohydrates, and minerals in Champagne playing a role in producing small bubbles butthese are presumably a result of the base wine.

Is he saying that only Champagne has these and that wines made elsewhere by the same methode champenoise can't have as small bubbles?

Worthwhile noting that the scientist consults for Moet et Chandon.

The physics of the bubble formation should not depend much on how the CO2 comes to be dissolved in the wine. According to the linked article, what does seem to be important is the chemical composition of the liquid. The fine bubbles found in champagne could well be a result of the wine being in contact with the yeast autolysis products for an extended period of time. In the case of Peter's injected CO2 Sauvignon Blanc, there could be some reason why the chemical composition of that wine was favorable to the formation of fine bubbles. See the cover story by Richard Zare in Physics Today, October 1991, for an analysis of the physics.