Wine Value - It's not a focus it's a way of life!

Robin - Please delete my post from this thread. I have reposted the TJ BdB note separately. No offense taken.

I used to buy and drink a lot of d'Andezon. Lately I've been focused on the Gonon Les Iles Feray. Price escalation on Gonon being what it is, I may go back to d'Andezon sometime soon.

Yeah, price creep in the N Rhone is a serious problem. Alas, I have all-too-vivid memories of buying Chave Hermitage for under $30 a bottle and Clape and Verset Cornas for under $10 a bottle. That Iles Feray is the finest Syrah from the Ardeche that I've had, but the world at large seems to have discovered Gonon, so there we go...

Mark Lipton

[Robin Garr]

Robin - Please delete my post from this thread. I have reposted the TJ BdB note separately. No offense taken.

"It's dead, Sam."

I used to buy and drink a lot of d'Andezon. Lately I've been focused on the Gonon Les Iles Feray. Price escalation on Gonon being what it is, I may go back to d'Andezon sometime soon.

I always found d'Andezon to have extreme bottle variation and (speculating!!) perhaps some bottling issues. I seem to recall there's no SO2 used. Anyone else?

Yeah, price creep in the N Rhone is a serious problem. Alas, I have all-too-vivid memories of buying Chave Hermitage for under $30 a bottle and Clape and Verset Cornas for under $10 a bottle. That Iles Feray is the finest Syrah from the Ardeche that I've had, but the world at large seems to have discovered Gonon, so there we go...

Mark Lipton

You have a vivid memory indeed!

When I started in the early 2000s, St. Joseph and Crozes were in the teens and were mentally categorized as the 'basic' (although of course very delicious) wines to balance out expenditures on Cornas and Cote Rotie (Hermitage has always been spendy for me). Which makes me recoil a bit as I watch all the attention heaped on St. Joseph and Crozes in recent years. Maybe the winemaking is getting better and they deserve all the status they can get. But time and prices pass us all by!

+1 re what Tom said..I stopped buying d'Andezon because I found I was getting more disappointing bottles than good ones

+1 re what Tom said..I stopped buying d'Andezon because I found I was getting more disappointing bottles than good ones

Most interesting. I've bought in most vintages going back 5-6 years now, and I haven't experienced any bottle variation. Maybe it's tied to distributors?

Mark Lipton

Pacherenc du Vic Bihl sec Cuvée Frédéric Laplace 2009 - Famille Laplace - Alc.14.5% - (c.€12), made from 40 % Gros Manseng & 60 % Petit Manseng.

As far as I can recall, this was my first Pacherenc. This bottle was a bit of a "curate's egg" (has this expression crossed the Atlantic?). Colour was a surprisingly deep gold for a 5 year old. The nose was marked by unclean notes reminiscent of glasses wiped with a dirty dishcloth ("goût de torchon") and perhaps a touch of botrytis; I changed glasses three times and eventually concluded that the unpleasant aroma came from the wine. On the other hand the medium + bodied palate was excellent with delicious citrus and pineapple fruit, flinty and saline minerals, lively acidity and an underlying "gras" (=fat) tinged with honey and a vigorous tangy finish. It was less refined than most Jurançon, made from the same grapes, but made up for it in vigour. Suitable IMO for quite rich fish dishes. Very good in spite of the strange bouquet. QPR!

Pacherenc du Vic Bihl is the white sister appellation for Madiran in south-western France and is offered by most Madiran producers. The famille Laplace are substantial and well regarded producers in the region and most of their wines are marketed with the Château d'Aydie label.

Great, another Gros Manseng wine! I opened a Gascogne last night.
Did you find this in your new Normandy area Tim?

[David M. Bueker]

+1 re what Tom said..I stopped buying d'Andezon because I found I was getting more disappointing bottles than good ones

Most interesting. I've bought in most vintages going back 5-6 years now, and I haven't experienced any bottle variation. Maybe it's tied to distributors?

Mark Lipton

Given the minimal sulphur that could certainly be the case.

Do a google search. You'll find things like:

I hesitate to recommend Domaine d'Andezon's Cote du Rhone only because there appears to be a history of bottle variation with this wine (reports of people cracking open a bottle and detecting flaws—volatile acidity, for instance). I personally have had only great experiences with d'Andezon, and the current release, the 2001 vintage, is terrific. Unlike most Cotes du Rhones, which feature a blend of grapes, d'Andezon is straight syrah, ranging in age from 40-60 years. Darkly colored, with a gorgeous nose and palate of black fruits and Provençal herbs, it is a wine that makes you understand why syrah is now the trendiest of grapes.

To be fair, the late 1990s - '97, '98, '99, I think - were the worst for me and I haven't bought much/any since. I should try it again.

[David M. Bueker]

Domaine la Garrigue Cotes du Rhone Cuvee Romaine is another one that has been praised to the heavens (including by me), only to then suffer incredible bottle variation.

D'Andezon is from the large Estezargues co-op, so maybe it's batch issues. I used to find it a good value, but haven't tried recently.
If one is looking for a true daily drinker Rhone, Estezargues is also the source of the Jenny & Francois "From the Tank" 3L BiB. That's a more traditional CdR blend, but at equivalent of roughly $8 bottle a good value if you don't mind drinking same thing.

Great, another Gros Manseng wine! I opened a Gascogne last night.
Did you find this in your new Normandy area Tim?

Yes, Bob, I found that at the caviste in the middle of Lisieux. Snag is that it costs 2-3€ more there that at the estate or on some mail order sites .

Southern Côtes du Rhône seems to be a source for lots of good QPR at present. Some really enjoyable ones from places like Sablet and Chusclan at around 6-7€ in the supermarkets here; more expensive but even better at cavistes. I haven't found similar bargains in Northern Rhône so I'm following this discussion here with interest. A Crozes-Hermitage and a St.Joseph from the Tain co-op at Inter-Marché hypermarket were both around 10€ and festooned with awards but were both disappointingly bland.

[David M. Bueker]

Let's talk about the wines of J.u.H.A. Strub. I am sipping on a 2005 Niersteiner Paterberg Riesling Spätlese*** that cost me about $22 when it came out. Walter Strub still produces a bevy of delicious, drinkable wines that sell for under $25, often far under that mark. He has gone to 100% screw cap. I have not had reduction issues, and only ever had one that leaked, and that was because of damage to the cap.

Back to this wine which still shows fresh, ripe peach, but also vanilla and cinnamon spice. It has aged, and aged to great profit. Lovely stuff.

We recently discovered this Cremant de Bourgogne made from Pinot Noir and Chardonnay.
At 16,90 € this still qualifies for the wine value thread.

It has a golden color, smells for brioche, fine bubbles and could easily be taken for a mid-level champagne.
It worked perfect with a Cucumber Salad with Moong Dal.

[David M. Bueker]

We recently discovered this Cremant de Bourgogne made from Pinot Noir and Chardonnay.
At 16,90 € this still qualifies for the wine value thread.

It has a golden color, smells for brioche, fine bubbles and could easily be taken for a mid-level champagne.
It worked perfect with a Cucumber Salad with Moong Dal.

And what is the wine?

And what is the wine?

Yeah, I probably should not mentioned the wine only in the subject

The wine is

Caves Bailly Brut 2007 Vive-la joie

and for completeness I repeat my remarks:

We recently discovered this Cremant de Bourgogne made from Pinot Noir and Chardonnay.
At 16,90 € this still qualifies for the wine value thread.

It has a golden color, smells for brioche, fine bubbles and could easily be taken for a mid-level champagne.
It worked perfect with a Cucumber Salad with Moong Dal.

2005 Niersteiner Paterberg Riesling Spätlese***

What are the asterisks for?

[David M. Bueker]

Some German estates (though mostly in the Mosel) use "stars" to denote special bottlings. Strub only makes the *** version every once in a while. Also one time he made a ** version (but no *** that year). He basically means auslese with no botrytis, but that is Strub's convention, and should not be construed to mean anything for another producer.

[David M. Bueker]

Now posted where it belongs...

OK, so here it a back up the truck value. The Plan Pegau Lot 2009 is a stunning value at $7.99 before discount. It has all the markings of a Chateauneuf du Pape, and is also very easy to drink. It's not some monster, just a mouthful of herbs, dark berries and warm earth. Wild stuff at a crazy low price.

[Robin Garr]

Plan Pegau Lot 2009 is a stunning value at $7.99 before discount.

Must find this! Importer? Hand Picked Selections?

[David M. Bueker]

Plan Pegau Lot 2009 is a stunning value at $7.99 before discount.

Must find this! Importer? Hand Picked Selections?

Yup. I'm buying more. Haven't had it in years. Grabbed one just because of this thread, and wham!

Screw cap by the way.

Now posted where it belongs...

OK, so here it a back up the truck value. The Plan Pegau Lot 2009 is a stunning value at $7.99 before discount. It has all the markings of a Chateauneuf du Pape, and is also very easy to drink. It's not some monster, just a mouthful of herbs, dark berries and warm earth. Wild stuff at a crazy low price.

David, here (actually in northern Ky) this wine is listed as "on sale" for $16.99. If I could find it at your price, I would back up the truck. Let it be noted that I do own a truck locally known as the BAT!