California wine prices

[Jenise]

Was stunned just now to read an entreaty to buy the 2011 Araujo Eisele. $495, and that's a 750. Are they nuts? I guess it's been too long since I paid attention to the upper end, because I did not realize that California wines, Harlan and a few others not included, had gotten so stratospheric.

Here's the setup from Stefan Blicker:

2011 ARAUJO EISELE VINEYARD CABERNET SAUVIGNON NAPA VALLEY $495 AG96+

AG96+ "Araujo has long made some of the more restrained Cabernets in Napa Valley. The 2011 Cabernet Sauvignon Eisele Vineyard is one of the more Left Bank inflected wines in the estate`s distinguished history. Beautifully layered and expressive, the 2011 graces the palate with exquisite finesse and total harmony. The 2011 isn`t a huge, explosive wine like the 2010 or 2009, but it stands out for its exceptional length and vibrancy. Readers should not expect an obvious Napa Valley Cabernet Sauvignon. I imagine the 2011 will still be marvelous at age 30, and I won`t be surprised if it is one day regarded as one of the great, iconic wines of the vintage."

[David M. Bueker]

A bottle of Harlan Estate is going for $750 on the list.

[Jenise]

Well, I knew Harlans were 'up there' but that's beyond where even I last saw them. Guess this is what happens when you quit reading the Wine Spectator.

It's a very rare California wine that makes it into my cellar anymore. I'd love to buy more, but the prices keep me from doing so about 99% of the time. I've basically moved to Washington and a few other places for cabs and cab blends. Bordeaux is the same...

[David M. Bueker]

There is still plenty of value in California. It's not in Cabernet, but in Syrah, Grenache and a host of less popular grape varieties that are starting to get more play. I just got my first (tiny) allocation from Sandlands. It was Chenin Blanc for $20. Idlewild has a whole slew of wines from Italian varieties that are smartly priced. Forlorn Hope has interesting wines from offbeat grapes at good QPR price levels.

And so on...

[Jenise]

There is still plenty of value in California. It's not in Cabernet, but in Syrah, Grenache and a host of less popular grape varieties that are starting to get more play. I just got my first (tiny) allocation from Sandlands. It was Chenin Blanc for $20. Idlewild has a whole slew of wines from Italian varieties that are smartly priced. Forlorn Hope has interesting wines from offbeat grapes at good QPR price levels.

And so on...

I would add pinot. Once upon a time it took $40 or better to get into the arena of 'decent' with pinot noir, where under $20 just got you dilute and uninteresting. There was nothing in between. But competition from the plethora of pinot producers operating today seems to have created a new range of interesting pinots in the $20-$40 range with a larger cast of premium pinots above that.

[David M. Bueker]

Most of the Sonoma Coast blend Pinot Noirs I am buying (that's my go-to appellation for non SV Pinot) run $35-$45. In single vineyard wines it starts at $50 and just goes up from there.

I think a distinction should be drawn between "California" and "Napa".

It's a very rare California wine that makes it into my cellar anymore. I'd love to buy more, but the prices keep me from doing so about 99% of the time. I've basically moved to Washington and a few other places for cabs and cab blends. Bordeaux is the same...

Unless mark-ups by importers and retailers in BC are horrendous, I am a bit surprised by your reticence about Bordeaux. I am sure that the range of prices in Bordeaux is far wider than in California and probably Washington. Over here, with a good wine merchant who helps in selecting amongst a lot of dross, one can find many very decent Bx Supérieur and other lesser appellations in the €5-10 range and in the €10-20 range things obviously get better.

If it is only grands crus classés and the better bourgeois that interest you, we here are spoilt for choice in the €20-50 range. RVF's latest number reviews the present showing and prices of the "great" and semi-mature 2005 vintage. The prices of most are scarcely higher than their en primeur prices (i.e. poor investments) and only some "Super-Seconds" and their right bank equivalents are quoted above €100. Left bank 1ers grands crus are in the €470 (Mouton) to €640 (Latour) range, which is similar to Eisele and Harlan. Finally Ausone and Pétrus are in a class by themeselves at €1200 and €2200 respectively.

[David M. Bueker]

Canadian mark ups are pretty bad Tim.

[Jenise]

Canadian mark ups are pretty bad Tim.

They are. And there's very little Bordeaux in Washington state. John only lives about 30 miles from the Washington border, but there's no real help here.

Yes, prices are brutal here, and we can't ship wine into the province (even from another province) so mailing lists are an impossibility. It's like a totally different world wine-wise in the US (though I know some states are better than others).

Definitely I have moved to Oregon pinot, as it's relatively close and I can drive there and visit the producers. It's about $20/bottle (after the first two bottles) tax to bring them back, but it's usually worth it as they are double US prices if they are available at all here (the selection of OR pinot is pitiful here, as is WA wines).

Oh, and in terms of Bordeaux, it is even sadder. Check out markups in the provincial wine system (http://www.bcliquorstores.com/product-catalogue?search=bordeaux). For example, 2011 Carruades de Lafite is $388; Angelus $380; Ausone $1300; Batailley $68; Beausejour Duffau $200.

Also, most of the wines all arrive on the same day (the 2011s just arrived two weeks ago), and you have to line up at the store to buy your 1-2 bottles, Many sell out within the first hour. If you don't live in the big cities, you don't have a chance to buy anything. It's quite bizzare...

Jenise, et al. All of this would be much harder to take for me if we drank more Cabernet Sauvignon than we do. In the past decade, our tastes in food (and wine pairing) have veered away from the red meats that go best with Cab S and more toward fish and poultry where white and lighter bodied reds are more friendly. We still have a few cases of CalCabs in the cellar as well as quite a bit more Bordeaux. At our present rate of consumption, I'm not too concerned about the escalation of pricing for those wines as I don't expect to need many more bottles. Time will tell, I suppose. In the mean time, as David says, there are plenty of wines from CA well within our wine budget.

Mark Lipton

I can purchase most wines from Napa at wholesale and even then at 33% off of retail I don't buy many of them. Obviously people do buy them at those prices or they would be cheaper. What's a bottle of wine worth? Whatever you can get for it. That's how the market works.

[Jenise]

I can purchase most wines from Napa at wholesale and even then at 33% off of retail I don't buy many of them. Obviously people do buy them at those prices or they would be cheaper. What's a bottle of wine worth? Whatever you can get for it. That's how the market works.

Oh, I get it! Just surprised the market in upper end Californians is working THAT well.

I can purchase most wines from Napa at wholesale and even then at 33% off of retail I don't buy many of them. Obviously people do buy them at those prices or they would be cheaper. What's a bottle of wine worth? Whatever you can get for it. That's how the market works.

Oh, I get it! Just surprised the market in upper end Californians is working THAT well.

Apparently so, if not the prices will come down. I'm just as surprised as you are Jenise.

There is a very small list of California producers from whom I buy, and the list just got smaller since the demise of Guilliams Vineyards last month - good quality Cabs and Merlot at reasonable prices, and nice people, but they are done. I am trying to justify continuing to buy Corison, but those prices have escalated quite a bit the last couple of years. I can't blame them but 2010 might be my last vintage.

I have a friend who drinks value wines and is a big California Cab lover,but I've noticed he has been drinking more and more Syrah.

With all that said, I am always happy to drink a Cab, or any wine, that Fred Scherrer makes.

[Jenise]

Corison's pretty spendy stuff. My neighbor recently had a guest bring a bottle of Cab (they were apparently outside on the deck and Mike said he kept peeking over the fence to see if we were out as he wanted to steer a taste my way, drat we were gone) and was temporarily 'under the influence' of it's magnificence and hunting down bottles. I don't know if the effect wore off before he made a purchase or not. I did notice that he was eyeing the syrah for around $160 as a compromise.

If I'm going to spend multiple hundies for a wine, it's going to be something like the 70's vintage Giacosas that will be delivered later this morning. Out-of-the-box Calcab? No.

[David M. Bueker]

Corison is still under $100 so far as I know.

That said, I did a small buy of a few different vintage Corison Cabs, and was not excited enough to go back for more. I will stick to my Syrah and Pinot.

I had to drop my Corison club membership. It hit at a bad time, and I just couldn't drop $500 at one time (club prices)

Still love her wines, and it's a lovely visit, but...

There are smaller producers out there that I have discovered that seem to produce wine in my style preference. I have been impressed with Sommers, who are in Calistoga but somehow avoid the alcoholic fruit bombs prevalent in the neighborhood.

Corison's pretty spendy stuff. My neighbor recently had a guest bring a bottle of Cab (they were apparently outside on the deck and Mike said he kept peeking over the fence to see if we were out as he wanted to steer a taste my way, drat we were gone) and was temporarily 'under the influence' of it's magnificence and hunting down bottles. I don't know if the effect wore off before he made a purchase or not. I did notice that he was eyeing the syrah for around $160 as a compromise.

If I'm going to spend multiple hundies for a wine, it's going to be something like the 70's vintage Giacosas that will be delivered later this morning. Out-of-the-box Calcab? No.

Giacosa is a great producer and I love his wines but they are much more expensive than even most Napa cabs. David is right, Corison is under a 100, especially their reg release.

Jenise - the basic Cab is probably around $75-80, but the estate wine is $135. David, I don't know the source of the wines you purchased, nor the vintages, but I have never been disappointed with any Corison. We seem to enjoy similar wines, so I am surprised by your opinion of them.

I might open a 2002 Kronos this weekend.

[Jenise]

Jenise - the basic Cab is probably around $75-80, but the estate wine is $135.

CLUNK. My bad: you guys were saying Corison and I was thinking Colgin. To Colgin, the numbers mentioned apply (as you probably know).