Are you drinking more cocktails lately?

[Robin Garr]

Cocktails are becoming popular these days, after a long spell during which most of us (well, me, anyway), thought of them as our parents' or grandparents' drink. So '60s!

In recent years, though, cocktails are coming back, to the point where I think they often offer a more attractive alternative for restaurant drinking than an overpriced or boringly chosen wine list.

What do you think? Are you drinking more cocktails these days? Cast your vote in the attached poll, then tell us how and why your interests are changing, and nominate your favorite cocktails.

You nailed it in your note, Robin. Wine lists around here, particular btg lists, are for the most part pitiful in terms of selection and price. A reasonably sized cocktail (not the fish bowl drinks of the 90s) or two is what I find myself ordering most often these days. Sitting at the bar, many bartenders, particularly craft bartenders, seem to enjoy the challenge of pairing food and drink. And with the varieties of spirits, juices, modifiers, and sweeteners available, a talented bartender can hit some excellent matches.

About the same.

My 'favorites' tend to rotate with the seasons, and these are presently near the top of my list:
1. Scotch Old Fashioned
2. Harvey's Bristol Cream Sherry
3. Frozen Blood Orange Martini
4. Sweet (rouge) Vermouth & Soda

Cheers!

I'll be mysterious and leave you to ponder how I might have voted.

[Robin Garr]

Thanks for posting, Todd! I got the idea for this from another discussion about "desert island cocktails." You might like to click and join in on that one, too!

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=54958

We,, I had a Kir Royale in St Omer, France, last Friday, but I don't consider that a cocktail and apart from that I can't remember when I last had a cocktail.

UK isn't really a cocktail place, though they're recently become fashionable here with a much younger crowd* in hip bars with sound sytems that makes my ears bleed

For me cocktails are too alcoholic, or too sweet or both and if I'm going to drink spirits I'd rather have a straight malt whisky.

My pre-dinner drink choice is a glass of Champagne and my after dinner drink choice is a sticky.

(my favourite restaurant serves a starter of melon & Port where you get a half cantaloup delivered by one waiter. There's a scooped out centre wherethe seeds were removed and a second waiter comes from the bar with a Port decanter and pours the Port into the hole till it overflows -- but I don't think that counts as a cocktail either....?)


*these days most of the population is in this group

In line with Robin's introduction, I find myself ordering cocktails in a hotel lounge (some hotels have pitiful wine lists.) Also, a few restaurants where I dine have inventive cocktail lists with their own infused flavored vodkas, crushed rosemary, muddled cucumbers etc. and I will sometimes order a special cocktail before dinner or with my appetizer and a glass of wine with the entrée. When I lived in Germany I drank cocktails more often that I do now, mostly at the Officers' Clubs. At German restaurants I had wine--mostly from the Mosel. I like a variety of spirits--whisky sour or Manhattans (I like rye whisky) or Old Fashioned. In warm weather I tend to go for vodka or gin drinks--a Collins or with tonic water. I also enjoy rum drinks such as Mai Tai and Daiquiris. Very occasionally I will have a Tequila (without the salt rim.) I rarely have cocktails at home although I have a bottle of Basil Hayden on hand, also Appleton Estate Rum (Jamaica) and Peach Vodka. The last cocktail I had was a whisky sour at the hotel in Crystal City.

[David M. Bueker]

My cocktail ordering began with some travel abroad where I could not stomach the wine prices and so decided to enjoy some classic cocktails. It's something I enjoy with regularity now, though because of a lack of any good bars around here I pretty much just make the classics at home.

When I encounter a mediocre or grossly overpriced wine list, I tend towards beer or a flavored vodka, usually orange or peach flavored.

I haven't changed much over the past few years. A few cocktails per month at the most, depending on where I am going out.

I rarely order them in restaurants. I'd rather a beer if I'm not drinking wine, because cocktails can be too alcoholic too quickly. And, they can be poorly done, even in very good restaurants, as it seems to me that many restaurants find them to be a clever way of making money by offering mediocre and overpriced 'house cocktails'. Again, even in otherwise great restaurants.

I'm more likely to drink cocktails after dinner, in a bar. But those occasions are very rare these days!

I haven't changed much over the past few years. A few cocktails per month at the most, depending on where I am going out.

I rarely order them in restaurants. I'd rather a beer if I'm not drinking wine, because cocktails can be too alcoholic too quickly. And, they can be poorly done, even in very good restaurants, as it seems to me that many restaurants find them to be a clever way of making money by offering mediocre and overpriced 'house cocktails'. Again, even in otherwise great restaurants.

I'm more likely to drink cocktails after dinner, in a bar. But those occasions are very rare these days!

I would think that if yo expanded the idea of "cocktails" to be more like a European idea of cocktails (i.e. aperitifs), and thus including savory concoctions with often lower alcoholl levels, such as the quintessential Americano (sweet vermouth, Camapari, soda), or a top Italian or French aperitif, such a Salers with prosecco, you'd be more likely to drink and enjoy "cocktails". Rather than a boozy concoction, you'd be getting aromatized wines and spirits that are specifically made to stimulate the appetite and enhance and enjoy the coming meal.

Plus, there is now a wide range of aperitifs/digestifs/aromatized beverages available, as never before here. Either straight or mixed with soda or bubbly or other spirits (gin in an Americano is a Negroni), as a result of the increase in popularity (much like wine over the last several years.)

And to Peter May: although not technically a cocktail in the most rigid definition, a Kir or Kir Royale would be considered an aperitif cocktail in this context, and you will quite often (though not as often as it used to be) see it on the starters list in restaurant

I would think that if yo expanded the idea of "cocktails" to be more like a European idea of cocktails (i.e. aperitifs), and thus including savory concoctions with often lower alcoholl levels, such as the quintessential Americano (sweet vermouth, Camapari, soda), or a top Italian or French aperitif, such a Salers with prosecco, you'd be more likely to drink and enjoy "cocktails". Rather than a boozy concoction, you'd be getting aromatized wines and spirits that are specifically made to stimulate the appetite and enhance and enjoy the coming meal.

Fair enough.

And to be clear, I definitely enjoy cocktails, even in their boozy form. (Frankly I enjoy all forms of deliciousness, in the right time and place)

I guess I just need to dine out more often!

[Robin Garr]

I'd rather a beer if I'm not drinking wine, because cocktails can be too alcoholic too quickly.

Rahsaan, I'm intrigued to see several of us mention this, because this was very much my concern when I started trying cocktails when we dine out. (I get fairly regular exposure when I'm wearing another hat as dining critic.) I've found, though, to my pleased surprise, that I can sip a Manhattan, Boulevardier, Negroni, etc., throughout dinner, as long as I consciously remember it's not wine, and use it for tastes, not quenching. (It helps to have a glass of water alongside for that.)

Am I just weird? I don't worry at all about having a cocktail - or rarely two - with dinner as long as I don't gulp it, reasoning that an ounce or two of liquor - particuarly if mixed at least a little with lighterweight vermouths or amari - isn't significantly more alcoholic than a decent wine pour (especially a spoofy wine) or a beer.

I'd rather a beer if I'm not drinking wine, because cocktails can be too alcoholic too quickly.

Rahsaan, I'm intrigued to see several of us mention this, because this was very much my concern when I started trying cocktails when we dine out. (I get fairly regular exposure when I'm wearing another hat as dining critic.) I've found, though, to my pleased surprise, that I can sip a Manhattan, Boulevardier, Negroni, etc., throughout dinner, as long as I consciously remember it's not wine, and use it for tastes, not quenching. (It helps to have a glass of water alongside for that.)

Am I just weird? I don't worry at all about having a cocktail - or rarely two - with dinner as long as I don't gulp it, reasoning that an ounce or two of liquor - particuarly if mixed at least a little with lighterweight vermouths or amari - isn't significantly more alcoholic than a decent wine pour (especially a spoofy wine) or a beer.

I wouldn't worry about having a cocktail or two during dinner. But I don't usually want a cocktail with my meal, that is for wine or beer. So a cocktail comes first. And then comes wine/beer. But for the most part I'd rather just go straight to the wine/beer. And even if I can get some lower alcohol versions (as Hoke mentions), usually I'd rather have wine or a beer. Followed by the post-dinner cocktails!

That said, at the end of the day so much comes down to location/options/atmosphere/mood.

I'd rather a beer if I'm not drinking wine, because cocktails can be too alcoholic too quickly.

Rahsaan, I'm intrigued to see several of us mention this, because this was very much my concern when I started trying cocktails when we dine out. (I get fairly regular exposure when I'm wearing another hat as dining critic.) I've found, though, to my pleased surprise, that I can sip a Manhattan, Boulevardier, Negroni, etc., throughout dinner, as long as I consciously remember it's not wine, and use it for tastes, not quenching. (It helps to have a glass of water alongside for that.)

Am I just weird? I don't worry at all about having a cocktail - or rarely two - with dinner as long as I don't gulp it, reasoning that an ounce or two of liquor - particuarly if mixed at least a little with lighterweight vermouths or amari - isn't significantly more alcoholic than a decent wine pour (especially a spoofy wine) or a beer.

I wouldn't worry about having a cocktail or two during dinner. But I don't usually want a cocktail with my meal, that is for wine or beer. So a cocktail comes first. And then comes wine/beer. But for the most part I'd rather just go straight to the wine/beer. And even if I can get some lower alcohol versions (as Hoke mentions), usually I'd rather have wine or a beer. Followed by the post-dinner cocktails!

That said, at the end of the day so much comes down to location/options/atmosphere/mood.

You hit the nail on the head of how I feel. For me, cocktails are pre and post dinner options (or on their own). I'm generally not a huge fan of cocktails with food, as similarly I don't usually see wine as a "cocktail" to be consumed without food. My preference is that wine belongs with food, and cocktails stand alone. Having been a craft bartender, I'm really picky about my cocktails, and don't get them out often. If I'm in a situation where the wine list sucks or is overpriced, I'll pick beer or water over anything else to go with my meal.

I've always liked (well, ever since I was permitted to try) cocktails. I still do. I drink them as an aperitif, usually. But when the wine list is horrid, I'll drink whisky (yes, Scotch) or beer with my meal. And there are meals that just cry out for beer, of course.
I do drink cocktails more when I'm traveling and need to kill some time before dinner in a hotel. That's one of the downsides of travel - you can't always get home (or back to the hotel) at just the right time.

What's the old religious expression---there are many rooms in my father's mansion?

We're lucky to live in a time where there are more things available in more ways from more places than ever before. That goes for all beverages, and all alcoholic beverages. The quality bar has been raised so high, along with the consciousness level and the ability to try new things, that this is a great time to broaden all our horizons.

The thing about spirits---it can be consumed in any number of ways (yes, just as wine and beer can).

Think about it. Just a few years ago beer was...well, pretty much just beer, and was seen as a limited and largely unsophisticated beverage,mostly for guys who were more interested in quantity and price than quality. That has changed greatly. Used to be beer had gotten kind of dull and insipid, then the craft movement started. Now beer pairing menus are quite common.

Used to be that wine was sort of humdrum and lists were old dead hymnals. Many of us, and not just the old fogies, still remember when restaurateurs were fighting by-the-glass selections with stubborn refusal to even consider, much less implement in a creative way. That changed.

Spirits has changed too. Most of the emphasis is on two ends---the fanatic/collector/showoff (as in whisky, say) and the interested observer willing to try something new. I do, for instance, a ton of various and sundry spirit-pairing dinners, some with straight spirits, but as often as not mixed drinks and cocktails---it's natural to do that, as it gives potential consumers ways to utilize the product!

Spirits can be consumed neat (although that is a bit daunting for the newbie, I admit). But it can also be used as one ingredient amongst many others. One of the things that has catapulted cocktails into awareness is when some bartenders decided they would stop using canned and processed fruit juices. A seeming simple thing like that caused a remarkable change.

So in a way, spirits (and how they are consumed) is now where beer was a few years ago, and where wine was 30-40 years ago. It's exciting; there's lots of buzz; people are experimenting and finding more things they like.

The younger generations take wine for granted. They expect to have a rainbow selection of astonishingly good beers readily available. They are also much more likely to embrace new things and experiment with cocktails. And that is just what they are doing.

And a funny thing? All this talk about spirits and cocktails? Think about it: how many of those cocktails depend upon wine as a major component? Let's see, off the top of my head: Manhattan, Rob Roy, Boulevardier, Martini, Negroni, Americano. And how many spirits are made from wine: all those many brandies, from grapes and other fruits.

I very rarely drink a cocktail and that occasion is usually when I am offered a pre-prepared cocktail and its refusal might offend the host. The main reason is that cocktails are most often drunk before meals. Alcoholic drinks before meals is something I seek to avoid, the main exceptions being delicious glasses of bubbly, sherry or white wine with fairly copious nibbles in the tapas style.

When I drink spirits, whisky, cognac, Armagnac, Calvados, etc., it is always just after a meal and straight.

What's a "cocktail"??

As usual, you folks are way, way more analytical than I am. I basically drink what I am in the mood for. Sometimes that's wine. Sometimes that's a liquor like scotch. Sometimes it's a cocktail. In the cocktail world I usually drink pretty simple stuff like martinis. I travel a reasonable amount and I seem to drink local. In New Orleans I lean to Sazeracs. In the Caribbean, I lean more rum based. At home I drink more scotch and vodka. And during a meal it's more usually wine. And champagne is always a good choice at any time or place.

Yes, including many of those already mentioned, although I make my Sazerac with Herbsaint, rather than absinthe.

For some reason I became intrigued with the pre-Prohibition Aviation, a classic cocktail made with gin, lemon juice, maraschino liqueur (i.e.: Luxardo), and crème de violette. Based on published descriptions of its history, the cocktail will be 100 years old next year.

I have found very few local places that know what it is or that have both of the more obscure ingredients (Luxardo and CdV). I have described the cocktail and the recipe to bartenders who do have both, and they have made passable versions. I had just about given up, but last week I noticed a bartender (at "Brendons Catch 23") making a drink using all of the aforementioned ingredients in, what appeared to be, classic proportions. I caught his attention, and sure enough, he was introducing the Aviation to other guests. I ordered one, too. He made an excellent version, although ungarnished, because he said he had only the neon red maraschino cherries - not the Luxardo cherries the cocktail deserves. I was impressed and delivered a jar of Luxardo cherries to him the next evening!

Nice touch, Jay, to bring the Luxardo cherries.

You'd feel comfortable around here. We even have a distillery that makes Aviation Gin. And it's good enough gin they even ship it to London.

I share your frustration at times---when I'm traveling anyway; not at home, because Portland is a cocktail mecca---when I ask for a cocktail and get a blank stare.

The one that gives me problems is The Last Word---essentially a gin sour with Chartreuse and Luxardo Maraschino. Like the Aviation, a popular drink wayback that has been revived. It's popular around here, but still a head scratcher in some places.

A year or so ago, Mike Filigenzi, his wife and I were in a new and very popular high-end bar that was mostly about whisky. I ordered The Last Word...and they said they couldn't make it as they had no Chartreuse. (Say WHAT, I thought). Oh, well. Then I ordered another cocktail and they came back and said they couldn't make that either, because they had no Cognac. I gave up and said "Well, make me something with what you do have."

I'm a little surprised that people seem to drink cocktails mostly when the wine list is lousy. I am drinking more cocktails because I'm excited by the new cocktail culture that is sweeping parts of the country, in particular the Palm Beach area where I live, and South Beach which isn't very far. Many of the best restaurants here have excellent wine lists but also wonderful and imaginative cocktail menus. Watermelon martini anyone? I, who rarely had anything beyond a gin and tonic in the summer, am discovering a whole new world out there and it's fun.

I do agree that wine or beer is a heck of a lot better with dinner. But with appetizers or a meal of small plates, bring on the cocktails!

[Robin Garr]

I'm a little surprised that people seem to drink cocktails mostly when the wine list is lousy. I am drinking more cocktails because I'm excited by the new cocktail culture that is sweeping parts of the country, in particular the Palm Beach area where I live, and South Beach which isn't very far.

Good point, Ken. We're getting that here in Louisville, too, especially in our "trendy dining" districts, which is pretty much all of them.

I don't see this as a conflict, though. Speaking as a longtime wine geek, I'm both interested in the growing cocktail culture AND see it as a welcome alternative to either overpriced or boring distributor-driven or trophy-pointy wine lists. As the saying goes, it's not either-or, it's both-and.