Derenoncourt Wines???

[Jenise]

Owned, per Wikipedia, by one Staphane Derenoncourt, is this Napa winery (no brick and mortar, best I can tell) with an estate in Bordeaux's Cotes de Castillon, is this so-called winery. He's been written about--here's a Jancis Robinson article about him:

http://www.jancisrobinson.com/articles/derenoncourt-the-new-michel-rolland

A friend of a friend recently passed away and because he enjoys wine and is a well-educated man (a cardiologist) of solid character, the widow turned to him to find out what to do with the $45,000 worth of "investment-grade" wine the hubby purchased before he died. He kept track of his 'investments', which consist in the majority of a number of cases of the Napa Valley product from various vintages since 2006, plus wines from Castillon, some mixed cases called things like "Pommard Collection", and some Italian IGT's and Brunellos on an Excel spreadsheet entitled "Wine Investments". But in just line items it's only about 25 to 30 items, though multiple bottles and cases of each, and many of them are large format bottles. The friend-in-common brought the list over for me to look at yesterday.

I was excited that I was going to get first crack at an investment-grade cellar from a motivated seller--until I saw the list. Unfamiliar names and vintages that wouldn't be considered collectible. I don't follow the world of cult wines, but I know most of the names that get the big bucks and they weren't here. It wasn't really a cellar per se at all. A quick google popped up the Wikipedia listing which confirmed that, as it appeared, all or nearly all these wines were connected to a single source.

Some Derenoncourt wines are for sale on Winebid for what are fairly average prices for better (but not cult) Napa wines these days. Here's a link:

https://www.winebid.com/BuyWine/Items/D ... urt/437026

Anyway, anyone know anything about these wines? Appears legit in that at least the friend of the friend got something in exchange for his money, but the way in which it all is connected is fishy. Word is that the old guy was adamnant that he was strictly buying for investment. His wife didn't drink at all, and he did only rarely. It's curious that he went so deep into something he didn't know anything about.

As best I can tell from a half-hour of Googling around, he is just leveraging his renown as a famous wine consultant in Bordeaux (and around the world). A common enough business plan... famous name on the label, steep prices on the bottle, good review from the pros, and presto! the money rolls in.

I've never encountered one of these wines in person nor have I even heard of them.

Here's Laube's review of the initial offering: http://www.winespectator.com/blogs/show/id/41708

The last item on the Winebid you posted is a Montesquieu wine. I'm betting the recently departed bought all of those through Montesquieu. High pressure direct sales of "boutique wineries" (aka throwing labels on shiners).
Not investment grade

It's curious that he went so deep into something he didn't know anything about.

Lots of people who know nothing of wine have lost a lot of money by believing companies sold wine as investments. At least the chappie here got some physical wine

http://investdrinks-blog.blogspot.co.uk/.

If you go to CT and enter the wines listed on Winebid, then click on "top stores" you'll see virtually all say Montesquieu, with a few scattered "winery", Winebid, or Winecommune.
Doctors are famous for falling for investment scams.
Sorry for the widow. Her best bet is bundling all to Winebid (the B&M houses won't be interested in this cellar)

[Jenise]

It's curious that he went so deep into something he didn't know anything about.

Lots of people who know nothing of wine have lost a lot of money by believing companies sold wine as investments. At least the chappie here got some physical wine

http://investdrinks-blog.blogspot.co.uk/.

Actually, you could have made that sentence "Lots of people who know nothing have lost a lot of money by believing in companies...as investments".

[Jenise]

The last item on the Winebid you posted is a Montesquieu wine. I'm betting the recently departed bought all of those through Montesquieu. High pressure direct sales of "boutique wineries" (aka throwing labels on shiners).
Not investment grade

Yes, Montesquieu was a name that popped up parenthetically three times on the spreadsheet--spelled three different ways because of typos such that I couldn't even remember it to repeat it here, but obviously somehow part of the bigger picture.

[Jenise]

If you go to CT and enter the wines listed on Winebid, then click on "top stores" you'll see virtually all say Montesquieu, with a few scattered "winery", Winebid, or Winecommune.
Doctors are famous for falling for investment scams.
Sorry for the widow. Her best bet is bundling all to Winebid (the B&M houses won't be interested in this cellar)

No idea if the departed was a doctor--but the friend who brought the list over was. And he was hoping I'd be able to target some wines he and I might be interested in. Still, you made me laugh with that line. I'd suggested WineBid too yesterday (I passed on involvement immediately)--but I'll pass this on.

you made me laugh with that line. I'd suggested WineBid too--but I'll pass this on.

ah, read too fast, thought departed was cardiologist.
It's not that doctors are especially gullible, it's just that (a) high net worth makes them targets (b) usually pretty busy which can cut down on time for due diligence, and (c) specialized expertise, not general business knowledge.

[Jenise]

you made me laugh with that line. I'd suggested WineBid too--but I'll pass this on.

ah, read too fast, thought departed was cardiologist.
It's not that doctors are especially gullible, it's just that (a) high net worth makes them targets (b) usually pretty busy which can cut down on time for due diligence, and (c) specialized expertise, not general business knowledge.

No problem. I'd realized (a) but never gave any thought to (b) and (c). He moved in just up the street from us a few months ago.

[Jenise]

This Yelp thread is entertaining! I also found a thread from WLDG, circa 2006. Apparently one of their salesmen wandered in here, wrote down some names and started calling folks.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/montesquieu-winery-san-francisco

This Yelp thread is entertaining! I also found a thread from WLDG, circa 2006. Apparently one of their salesmen wandered in here, wrote down some names and started calling folks.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/montesquieu-winery-san-francisco

Loved the Yelp thread. All those one stars, but there is one 5 star, which includes:
Wines are high quality, and sold by the case so this is no small time operation. This company will not be appreciated by simple wine drinkers, rather if you are an avid wine lover and enjoy exploring wines from different vineyards from different countries then this is a great option for you.
Wow, they sell wines by the case, they're big time!
Clearly Jenise is a simple wine drinker, otherwise she'd have bought the whole cellar.
For anyone with long memories, this is the old Jacob Erhardt coldcall/high pressure/boilerroom operation.

I'm a bit puzzled that Stéphane Derenoncourt is lending his name to what seems to be essentially a high pressure marketing operation. I think that it detracts from his image in France, which is of a rough diamond, plain speaking but serious consultant with a rather engaging personality. He is unlike the self-satisfied and pontificating Michel Rolland, with whom an operation like this would sit more naturally. Derenoncourt claims to be no businessman and this operation looks like the brainchild of a business manager.

Like Rolland, he spreads himself very thinly and his personal input into making these Napa wines must be very small indeed. And, of course, money talks.

[Jenise]

Tim, he does more than just lend his name. He personally peddles the product. Check out this column by the Wine Spectator's Jim Laube (who has covered the California beat for the Speck for several decades, so he's quite influential.)

http://www.winespectator.com/blogs/show/id/41708

Doctors are famous for falling for investment scams.

While many doctors are 'regular' people, a significant number think they know it all, likely due to the fact that all of the junior doctors and nurses knuckle under to them.

That makes it difficult when trying to deal with other professionals, as a few MDs don't think they ARE God, they think God should check with them before doing anything. I have more trouble explaining legal things to doctors than any other single profession, They sit there and say "But that's not how it should be!" and I respond "But that's the way it is" and they often refuse to believe that such things fail to comply with their own world view.

You are right, I've seen quite a few doctors invest based on locker room chat, and when the 'investment' bombs they are reluctant to admit that it had anything to do with their judgement.

If you think about it, they are almost the perfect mark for any sort of investment 'opportunity', wine or otherwise. I'm also surprised that Derenoncourt would lend his name to the sort of wine 'investment' that your research seems to indicate.