Good Wines that get Bad Reputations

I have always regarded wine reviews with a jaundiced eye, especially those from tasting groups that changed composition frequently, like Wine Speculator in the old days (no idea what they do now as \i pay no attention to them).

Parker was at least reliable even if your taste didn't coincide four square with his, but now that the empire of the Muse of Monkton has passed, like that of Genghis Khan, to a number of different reviewers, it takes more research to find out what is what, and they rarely look at older wines.

Example - I pulled out two 1994 Chanteuaneufs the other day for a friend and I to drink.

1994 Font de Michelle Châteauneuf-du-Pape Cuvée Etienne Gonnet - last review on Cellartracker was 2010 and it was classed as a goner. It was delightful and although clearly a mature example, it opened up nicely over an hour or so.

1994 St. Benoit Châteauneuf-du-Pape Grande Garde - attracted only one CT review as "Undrinkable. Stewed fruit with high volatile acidity. Probably corked, too. Disgusting"

If anything, this one was a good bottle and possibly better than the other wine with a bit more interest and depth. You'll see new comments on both on CT now, from the fellow I shared them with.

The obvious danger comes in giving any credence to private reviewers you don't know. They can be all over the place - saying that zinfandels over 5 years old are over the hill because they no longer have the often blowsy early fruit, saying that 1975 Bordeaux are dead when a few haven't come into drinking territory yet, and that sort of thing.

Moral is to trust yourself and then to trust your friends whose palates you know, and thirdly to look at what dependable reviewers on sites like CT say.

Although sometimes things can work to your benefit. I recall when the Speculator appointed some people without the first clue about traditional Italian wines to the board that tasted those wines. The more the wines resembled a Parkerized sweet American merlot the higher the scores given, and the more they were traditional Italian, the lower the scores. I used that to my advantage by buying bottles of anything that scored below 80 to assess myself on the assumption that it would be exactly what I valued in that sort of wine.

[Jenise]

I hear you. But two problems, besides people who don't 'get' mature wine flavors reviewing mature wines. 1) Bottle variation. I mean, you know it even better than I do, that after 20 years things can be iffy from one bottle to the next. And 2), as my cellar ages I'm beginning to understand that a lot of wines go in and out of more dormant periods than I ever imagined. It has been enormously helpful to post TN's to CT because occasionally I open something and when I go to post a note on it, I see past notes I've written about the same wine. Great bottle now/almost dead three years ago. Sometimes notes on color/condition indicate that the culprit was indeed just bottle variation, but in other cases I've realized that wines I'd given up for dead were merely fast asleep. It's easy to be fooled, and less easy to gain the experience to know the difference.

Great bottle now/almost dead three years ago. Sometimes notes on color/condition indicate that the culprit was indeed just bottle variation, but in other cases I've realized that wines I'd given up for dead were merely fast asleep. It's easy to be fooled, and less easy to gain the experience to know the difference.

Amen

[David M. Bueker]

For what it's worth, both the Wine Advocate and Vinous do reviews of older wines on a regular basis. They won't do retrospectives of middling vintages though, so if you are looking for a 1994 CNdP retrospective then you are out of luck.

Moral is to trust yourself and then to trust your friends whose palates you know...

"Trust yourself" was Ben Spock's trademark quote, along with "you know more than you do". Quite apt.

Well, Bill....to throw out one example of "Good Wines That Get Bad Reputations"...I would
cite the Rombauer Carneros Chard. Rombauer is the punching bag always cited for
"over-oaked/buttery/fat/full-ML/soft" Calif Chard. Maybe (not really maybe) it was way back when.
But the present Carneros Chard is anything but that.
Turley Zin is another wine whose reputation suffers from the early excesses of Helen Turley. Their Zins are
quite a bit different now, thanks to EhrenJordan and Tegan.
Tom

[Jenise]

But when did Rombauer change, and how long had things been the other way?

My TN on the '15 said: "Good on Vic for daring to bring a Rombauer. Blind, it was quite pale where all previous Rombauers I've ever had looked like Mountain Dew. On the palate, big, sweet, oaky, bright and yet balanced and pleasing. So much so that when Vic threw out the hint "iconic", and then followed that with "well, supermarket iconic", racking our brains none of us considered Rombauer. This is so dialed back from expectations."

They've been make the Mountain Dew style for decades and that reputation is well deserved. Takes more than a vintage or two to turn that kind of rep around.

But when did Rombauer change, and how long had things been the other way?

My TN on the '15 said: "Good on Vic for daring to bring a Rombauer. Blind, it was quite pale where all previous Rombauers I've ever had looked like Mountain Dew. On the palate, big, sweet, oaky, bright and yet balanced and pleasing. So much so that when Vic threw out the hint "iconic", and then followed that with "well, supermarket iconic", racking our brains none of us considered Rombauer. This is so dialed back from expectations."

They've been make the Mountain Dew style for decades and that reputation is well deserved. Takes more than a vintage or two to turn that kind of rep around.

Hmmmm, Jenise....I gather from your TN that the Rombauer was a decent wine?
I haven't tasted the '15 yet, but the previous two vintages I tried were pretty good as well.
The oak was definitely there, but not any more so than many Calif Chards. But they were balanced and
had a good acidity. At $34/btl, I don't consider them a particularly good value.
I, too, long ago gave up on Rombauer. But when I saw it a few yrs ago at $30+, I gave it a try and was
pleasantly surprised. They used to make a Calif-designate Chard that was pretty bad. The current one is
a Carneros designate...so that's probably the difference.
Tom

[Jenise]

I think this change is in the last five years. A couple I knew here in the 'hood were big fans of the old Rombauer so I got to taste it fairly often. They moved away about five years ago, so the change in available vintages occurred within that time. And yes, it was quite decent. Not what I'd buy especially, as you point out, at the price, but it was a huge departure from what it used to be. Meanwhile the ex-winemaker, named Lloyd, is replicating the Rombauer style under his own name down in the Santa Rita Hills area. Beware!

Essentially the problem is that personal taste can and does differ. Unless a wine is specifically flawed the fact that experts (or the experts here) don't like it is of little meaning. An example.....Silver Oak ....routinely derided as Silver Joke. When I have the neighbors over and open a bottle of it the neighbors like it much more that many a more highly regarded wine. These are nice people and they buy wine. At times, wine rating can get just a bit too snobby.

Essentially the problem is that personal taste can and does differ. Unless a wine is specifically flawed the fact that experts (or the experts here) don't like it is of little meaning. An example.....Silver Oak ....routinely derided as Silver Joke. When I have the neighbors over and open a bottle of it the neighbors like it much more that many a more highly regarded wine. These are nice people and they buy wine. At times, wine rating can get just a bit too snobby.

Yes. An example of this is the somewhat dramatic change in style at Michel-Schlumberger. I loved the 2011 wines I bought when a club member, but after that, the alcohol levels shot up a full 1%+ (15.7% cab blends? Comeon!). Yet, at a recent dinner party, friends and fans and frequent wine drinkers loved the 16% zinfandel that I almost found undrinkable.

Heck, I am even finding that true at old school stalwarts Clos Du Val. The extraction seems to be creeping up, they are fancifying the tasting room, and I am just no longer a fan. Yet I am sure their market studies and corporate planning are choosing this path, because the big fruit style is still so popular.

(I have to confess...after 10 years, Silver Oak is better than I expected. I tasted the 2006 at the winery last year, and while I am not sure it is really worth the $100, I actually enjoyed it!)

Silver Oak has too much oak for my tastes. I'll spend my silver elsewhere.

-Paul W.

Silver Oak has too much oak for my tastes. I'll spend my silver elsewhere.

-Paul W.

It is a well-named wine.

But after 10 to 15 years, the oak does integrate somewhat.