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David M. Bueker

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Updating an old topic: how much $ (or €) for "everyday" wine

by David M. Bueker » Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:09 pm

Remember when there were tons of fantastic wines for $15, even $20?

There are still a bunch, but lots of things that once passed for value/everyday wine have crested the $20 or even $30 or $40.

So where do you draw the line for a daily drinker/everyday wine? Or do you draw a line at all?

I generally consider a Tuesday just as good as a Saturday for opening a really nice wine, but would put my personal line at about $25.
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Re: Updating an old topic: how much $ (or €) for "everyday"

by Jim Grow » Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:24 pm

My everyday wines average about 20$-25$, especially if young. If going by original price and older wines then this does not apply. Since most of my wines are from the 2010-2014 vintage, I only open an older wine ( i.e. 1986 Bordeaux) if a special occasion with other wine lovers. Ah..... those days of great 5$ Riesling kabinetts.
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Re: Updating an old topic: how much $ (or €) for "everyday"

by David M. Bueker » Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:26 pm

$5 Kabinett? Clearance? Even in 1995 the best I was finding was $8.99 before discount.
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Re: Updating an old topic: how much $ (or €) for "everyday"

by Robin Garr » Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:29 pm

Great question! Mine's a sliding scale. I like to hang in the $10 to $15 range if I can, but I'll easily go to $20 for an interesting line, and roll on to $25 with only a little arm-twisting. Anything above $25 is not, by definition, everyday for me. At the lower end, I sadly am reluctant to trust anything much under $10 any more, unless it's a producer and bottling with which I'm familiar, from a region that I considered under-valued, or some other reason beyond "this is cheap."
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Re: Updating an old topic: how much $ (or €) for "everyday"

by Tim York » Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:42 pm

Over here, decent wine is, I think, available at more friendly prices than in the USA. Just looking through my Foire aux Vins purchase prices to date, most are below €10. Examples for €9 are Marionnet Gamay 1ères Vendanges, Dom.Courteillac Bdx Supérieur, Tenuta i Fauri M.d'Abruzzo, Mas Amiel Roussillon Villages; for €8 Bois St.Denis Reuilly, Muscadet Clos Milieu Luneau-Papin; for less Ch.Ripaille Savoie, Dom.Arcoeur MàVent, Clos Troteligotte Cahors, Dom.Madone Fleurie.....

I guess therefore that €10 would be a good average for my everyday tipple. Bottles like this evening's Ch.Branaire Ducru '98 evaluated by CT at $48 push up that average.
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Re: Updating an old topic: how much $ (or €) for "everyday"

by Jenise » Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:06 pm

An amusing thread on other forae this week asked people to compare their cellar contents according to four categories with these names:

$0-29 Pedestrian
$30-59 Collectible
$60-99 Premium
$100+ Gatsby

At first, I was a little taken aback by both the word 'Pedestrian' and the $29 ceiling, I probably would have put it at $25, but at the same time tend to agree that if the second stage is going to be named 'Collectible' then you have to get into the late 30's as a rule to get your feet wet. I probably would have started 'Collectible' at $40 and had two categories below that called Everyday and Everyday Fancy, or something like that.
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Re: Updating an old topic: how much $ (or €) for "everyday"

by Jim Grow » Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:21 pm

David, that Kabinett price quote was from the early 1980's and not necessarily on discount.
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Re: Updating an old topic: how much $ (or €) for "everyday"

by Patchen Markell » Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:40 pm

Based on my own impressions and a glance at the spreadsheet, it looks to me like in the last two years we've pushed the "everyday" cap from about $22 to $29. I'd guess this is because we're in an "actively exploring" rather than "comfortably coasting" mode, including in some relatively pricey regions; and also because I've been building up the "ageworthy" side of the cellar too, which has included buying at price points compared to which sub-$30 seems pretty "weeknight." But that's a cap, not an average, and we still drink plenty of sub-$20 bottles, though much less often sub-$13.

I like Jenise's category of "everyday fancy," also known as "what a frickin' day that was." (Also, every time I get nervous about impending nuclear catastrophe, I tend to revert to my father's "drink the good stuff first" slogan.)
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Re: Updating an old topic: how much $ (or €) for "everyday"

by David M. Bueker » Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:59 pm

I think premium and collectible need to be reversed.
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Re: Updating an old topic: how much $ (or €) for "everyday"

by Jenise » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:03 pm

Patchen Markell wrote:I like Jenise's category of "everyday fancy," also known as "what a frickin' day that was." (Also, every time I get nervous about impending nuclear catastrophe, I tend to revert to my father's "drink the good stuff first" slogan.)


See the Dom entry in my White bordeaux thread. :)
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Re: Updating an old topic: how much $ (or €) for "everyday"

by Jenise » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:06 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:I think premium and collectible need to be reversed.


I think so, too.
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Re: Updating an old topic: how much $ (or €) for "everyday"

by Patchen Markell » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:24 pm

Frightened minds drink alike. :D
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Re: Updating an old topic: how much $ (or €) for "everyday"

by Rahsaan » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:58 pm

Interesting topic, although I don't drink wine everyday so I'm not sure how much I can add! (And drinking wine less frequently has the added bonus of increasing per-bottle averages).

But, I have noticed an increase in pricing and would say that I find it difficult to get wines for less than $20 that I actively want to drink. And I agree with Tim, that threshold is usually closer to 10euros in France.
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Re: Updating an old topic: how much $ (or €) for "everyday"

by Victorwine » Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:24 pm

My Home-made wines are our everyday drinking wines and considering grape prices only
it comes out to approximately $3.55 a bottle (750 mls).

Salute
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Re: Updating an old topic: how much $ (or €) for "everyday"

by Robin Garr » Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:23 pm

Victorwine wrote:My Home-made wines are our everyday drinking wines and considering grape prices only
it comes out to approximately $3.55 a bottle (750 mls).


Having tasted a couple of your homemade wines, Victor, I have to say that they are better than commercial wines at any logical everyday price point!
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Re: Updating an old topic: how much $ (or €) for "everyday"

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:46 pm

Hard for me to add anything due to Alberta taxes and rep greed here. I can find some nice whites from Portugal for just under $20 Cdn but entry level type reds are usually around the $25 mark. No discounts here but you all knew that!!
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Re: Updating an old topic: how much $ (or €) for "everyday"

by David M. Bueker » Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:38 am

That's too bad Bob. Back in the late '90s/early '00s I could usually find a really good deals on European wines in Alberta.
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Re: Updating an old topic: how much $ (or €) for "everyday"

by Jenise » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:12 am

Patchen Markell wrote:Based on my own impressions and a glance at the spreadsheet, it looks to me like in the last two years we've pushed the "everyday" cap from about $22 to $29. I'd guess this is because we're in an "actively exploring" rather than "comfortably coasting" mode, including in some relatively pricey regions; and also because I've been building up the "ageworthy" side of the cellar too, which has included buying at price points compared to which sub-$30 seems pretty "weeknight." But that's a cap, not an average, and we still drink plenty of sub-$20 bottles, though much less often sub-$13.


We're on similar paths. Where I live, there's very little of interest under $14--some European whites come in about there though and there are a lot of interesting things under $20--Cheverny et al, the relatively unknown little wines the average non-geek consumer ignores. But for reds, the bar's a little higher. I had a superb WA merlot the other day--$22, a serious serious structured merlot with superb fruit by a maker of ageable wines that would stun people who denigrate the grape based on cheap bar wine versions or because they bought into the Sideways effect. At the winery, it's still for sale at $38, but a distributor decided to close out his stock on it so, hey, just $22.

So there's a wine that fits into the 'Pedestrian' class based on how many sheckles I paid but which wouldn't at MSRP--and relative value for what it is. I'm lucky to live in a place where one retailer (from whom I bought the above merlot), whose interest is largely European and whose palate is much like mine, simply adds his markup to whatever he pays the distributor, passing the savings onto the consumer instead of increasing his profit margin. And wineries often give me industry discounts of up to 30%. I honestly can't take advantage of all the opportunities I have--and yes, I often pay shelf price because whatever it is I want it, period.

I think I'm running on a bit--it's 5 a.m. and the coffee's getting to me.

Oh, one last thing re cost. My friend David N, who reads this site but almost never comments, said once that when he gets wine home, it's all the same in value to him no matter what he paid for it. He shows no partiality. And when he said that I instantly understood that I did otherwise, and over time realized that I've done so to my detriment. So I've made a point of changing. Price may affect what I choose to open for others for various reasons, but now any day, any wine can be good enough for just us.
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Re: Updating an old topic: how much $ (or €) for "everyday"

by Rahsaan » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:36 am

Jenise wrote:... once that when he gets wine home, it's all the same in value to him no matter what he paid for it. He shows no partiality...


I sort of do that. Although I don't just randomly open bottles.

Because often there is a correlation between cost and complexity/amount of care required. So the $200 aged Barolo can't be opened at the last minute on a whim in the same way as a $15 recent vintage kabinett.

But, more than price, it's often just as much about replaceability. I have a fair amount of 'modestly-priced' wines that I can't necessarily run out and get more of. So I'm reluctant to open them in situations (e.g. parties) where I won't even get to drink them!
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Re: Updating an old topic: how much $ (or €) for "everyday"

by David M. Bueker » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:50 pm

Scarcity driving habit more than cost...I think I do that as well, and it results in orphans/twosomes sitting in the cellar forever because I can't bear the thought of the wine being gone.Silly behavior on my part, as it might as well be gone if I am unwilling to drink it.
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Re: Updating an old topic: how much $ (or €) for "everyday"

by Jenise » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:43 pm

Rahsaan wrote: So I'm reluctant to open them in situations (e.g. parties) where I won't even get to drink them!


That's just being smart! As I said, there are situations that call for reaching a little higher or a little lower. I lavish friends who 'get it' and hold back a bit for those who don't. I'm just not holding back like I used to where just Bob and I are concerned.
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Re: Updating an old topic: how much $ (or €) for "everyday"

by Bill Buitenhuys » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:07 pm

As we don't drink as much wine lately as we did say 5 years ago, my everyday threshold has crept up significantly higher that it was. I used to keep a bunch of $12-18 bottles around for popping on the fly, cooking with, etc. Now I hear a lot of "You're opening that on a Tuesday?".
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Re: Updating an old topic: how much $ (or €) for "everyday"

by David M. Bueker » Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:41 pm

Bill Buitenhuys wrote:Now I hear a lot of "You're opening that on a Tuesday?".


To which the correct answer is "Hell yes!"
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Re: Updating an old topic: how much $ (or €) for "everyday"

by Bill Buitenhuys » Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:41 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:
Bill Buitenhuys wrote:Now I hear a lot of "You're opening that on a Tuesday?".


To which the correct answer is "Hell yes!"
Precisely!

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