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TomHill

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WTN: Two More Whites O'ver The Weekend...(short/boring)

by TomHill » Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:11 pm

Tried these two w/ Susan this weekend:
1. Stags'Leap Viognier NapaVlly (14.5%; www.StagsLeap.com) Napa 2016: Med.light gold color w/ small bubbles when poured; fairly strong floral/Viog/gardenias bit spicy/cardamon rather pretty nose; bit soft/fat slight dissolved CO2 light floral/Viog/gardenia rather simple bit vapid flavor; med.short soft/fat/porky light Viog/floral/gardenias/pear rather simple/vapid finish; a rather pleasant Viog nose but pretty dull/vapid on the palate; another white robbed on the palate by dissolved CO2. $23.00 (KK)
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2. Balletto Chard Teresa'sUnoaked/RRV/SonomaCnty (EG/EB; 13.4%; www.BallettoVineyards.com) SantaRosa 2016: Light gold color w/ tiny bubbles; brigt appley/pear/slight melony/Chard pleasant/simple nose; fairly tart slight dissolved CO2 bright/pleasant apple/ripe pear/slight melony/Chard rather simple/straightforward flavor; med. bright pear/peach/Chard/melong lightly tart bit dissolved CO2/spritz rather simple finish; a pleasant enough Chard but on the simple side; clearly some dissolved CO2 but it doesn't rob the wine on the palate like it often does. $30.00 (AV)
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A wee BloodyPulpit:
1. Stags'Leap: The label on the bottle seems to tout that Stags'Leap (as distinguished from Warren Winiarski's Stag's Leap Vnyds) was a pioneer in the Rhone wine mevement. That struck me as a bit peculiar...they were only known for the old-vine Petite Sirah that rose to fame under Carl Doumani in the late '70's w/ his inky/black Petites. From their WebSite, they look to be mostly a Cabernet house nowadays. Also interesting, their WebSite makes absolutely no mention of Carl, who revived the wnry and made it a mordern success. Ahhh...fame is so fleeting. Carl now, of course, runs Quicote Wnry, still specializing in Petite.
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2. Balletto: Driving around the RRV this last trip, I noticed a number of different Balletto vnyds, but hadn't the time to stop into their tasting room. So when I saw this in ArroyoVino on the shelf, thought I'd give it a shot. Originally in the vegetable-growing business, they now seem to specialize in winemaking. They seem to specialize in Chard and PinotNoir. Based on this single data point, I'm not likely to try any of their other wines.
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3. Both of these whites were rather underwhelming. I need of a white wine, I shoulda just have been done with it and opened an Ingrid Groiss..always a sure bet.
Tom
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David M. Bueker

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Re: WTN: Two More Whites O'ver The Weekend...(short/boring)

by David M. Bueker » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:29 pm

Not sure how you connect the reported CO2 to the dullness on the palate. Dissolved CO2 typically heightens the perception of acidity, adding brightness to a wine, not dullness.

Clearly you do not like reductive winemaking, which promotes some degree of retained CO2. The idea is to preserve freshness. Perhaps the Stags' Leap is just another bad California Viognier.
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Re: WTN: Two More Whites O'ver The Weekend...(short/boring)

by TomHill » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:50 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:Not sure how you connect the reported CO2 to the dullness on the palate. Dissolved CO2 typically heightens the perception of acidity, adding brightness to a wine, not dullness.
Clearly you do not like reductive winemaking, which promotes some degree of retained CO2. The idea is to preserve freshness. Perhaps the Stags' Leap is just another bad California Viognier.


I've just been observing over the last few yrs that the presence of dissolved CO2 is not the same
on the palate as the percieved acidity from a healthy presence of tartaric/malic acidity. They just feel
different to me on the palate. The perceived acidity on the palate from dissolved CO2 is much more fleeting
than that from malic/tartaric. If you take a low acid wine like the Viognier, it gives an ersatz acidity on the palate when it
first hits, and then it vanishes. Whereas the Chard had a good healthy malic/tartaric acidity that didn't need the CO2
presence to make it taste acid.
I've just had to many whites w/ dissolved CO2 that did not have the perception of acidity that you get from malic/tartaric
acid....that are dull on the palate and the CO2 does not salvage that lack of acidity.
And there is also the effect of the level of dissolved CO2, something that many winemakers don't bother to track.
Take a btl of fizzy water, dissolved CO2. Does that taste acid to you?? Doesn't taste acid to me...just tastes fizzy.
Then add some tartaric or malic acid to that fizzy water. I suspect it will taste dramatically different on the palate.
Tom
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Re: WTN: Two More Whites O'ver The Weekend...(short/boring)

by David M. Bueker » Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:29 am

Your explanation makes perfect sense Tom. What it does not do is explain your note on the Stags' Leap. The problem with their Viognier is much more likely to be a grape/place mismatch, resulting in a fat, flabby wine than being "robbed on the palate by dissolved CO2."

Viognier already runs the risk of flabbiness without being (mis)planted in what is a very warm region.
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Yup....

by TomHill » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:00 am

David M. Bueker wrote:Your explanation makes perfect sense Tom. What it does not do is explain your note on the Stags' Leap. The problem with their Viognier is much more likely to be a grape/place mismatch, resulting in a fat, flabby wine than being "robbed on the palate by dissolved CO2."
Viognier already runs the risk of flabbiness without being (mis)planted in what is a very warm region.


Yup, David.....probably wrong place to be growing Viognier.
Probably the best NapaVlly Viog was made by Doug Danilek from the James Paras vnyd up on
MtVeeder. What used to be the old Veedercrest vnyd I believe.
The Krups also make a Viog (Black Bart?) that is pretty decent, though wines from StagecoachVnyd have
never particularly impressed me.
Tom

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Re: WTN: Two More Whites O'ver The Weekend...(short/boring)

by David M. Bueker » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:55 am

Well at least we agree that they should not be planting Viognier up and down California!
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