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TomHill

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750Daily: The End of Mono-Clonal Vnyds

by TomHill » Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:01 pm

Interesting article, as linked in WineTorroirist, to a 750Daily:
https://daily.sevenfifty.com/overturning-the-monoclonal-status-quo/
in which we learn, at least for Chard and Pinot vnyds, that there are increased plantings of
multi-clonal vnyds in Calif & Oregon.
And we find, obviously well know fact, that multi-clonal vnyds...display terroir more than mono-clonal vnyds.
But, then, we already knew that...didn't we?? [snort.gif]

It is also well-known that PinotNoir (and Nebbiolo) mutate at the drop of a hat. You plant a vnyd to Clone 777 and, after a number
of yrs, there will be Pinot vines that are no longer identical to Clone 777 that you originally planted.
I'd be curious to know if a good grower can observe if/when one of his Pinot vines has mutated??

I also find out that when you buy (say) Clone 777 from a grapevine supplier that it is illegal for the grower to propagate
that clone in his vnyd or sell plant material to other growers. That is, it is illegal to do a selection massale in your
own vnyd. Sounds like a rule that was imposed by the Trump-run Dept of Agriculture to rein in those unruly growers.

Tom
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Re: 750Daily: The End of Mono-Clonal Vnyds

by David M. Bueker » Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:40 pm

It's positively Monsanto-esque.
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Re: 750Daily: The End of Mono-Clonal Vnyds

by Peter May » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:13 am

TomHill wrote:
It is also well-known that PinotNoir (and Nebbiolo) mutate at the drop of a hat. You plant a vnyd to Clone 777 and, after a number of yrs, there will be Pinot vines that are no longer identical to Clone 777 that you originally planted. I'd be curious to know if a good grower can observe if/when one of his Pinot vines has mutated??



There's an article (link below) by Anne Krebiehl MW who argues that PN doesn't mutate so easily, but that weather conditions can affect it so much that it looks different. She starts with

the entirely false assumption, repeated with sufficient frequency to become accepted as truth by many, that Pinot Noir is somehow more prone to mutation and less genetically stable than other Vitis vinifera varieties. but ........ “Pinot has hundreds of clones simply because it is very old, not because it is naturally more prone to mutation than other
varieties.”


I am one who has repeated that 'accepted truth' :)

http://www.anneinvino.com/wp-content/up ... r-WOFW.pdf

TomHill wrote:
I also find out that when you buy (say) Clone 777 from a grapevine supplier that it is illegal for the grower to propagate that clone in his vnyd or sell plant material to other growers. That is, it is illegal to do a selection massale in your own vnyd. Sounds like a rule that was imposed by the Trump-run Dept of Agriculture to rein in those unruly growers.


Trump is innocent on this. 777 is a proprietary clone. The fee on it goes to support the work of ENTAV who own the plant breeders rights (PBR).

I don't know how many vineyard owners do their own selection, as they'd also have to either have a mother vine rootstock or source rootstocks and graft them together. Most commercial vineyards buy their grafted vines form a nursery, for 777 it would have to be authorised to propagate 777 and the PBR fee would be included in the cost of the vine
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Re: 750Daily: The End of Mono-Clonal Vnyds

by Peter May » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:33 am

TomHill wrote:Interesting article, as linked in WineTorroirist, to a 750Daily: https://daily.sevenfifty.com/overturning-the-monoclonal-status-quo/ in which we learn, at least for Chard and Pinot vnyds, that there are increased plantings of multi-clonal vnyds in Calif & Oregon.



That is a very interesting article. I had no idea that planting mono-clone PN vineyards was the norm ior that multi-clonal vineyards are thought revolutionary.

At a seminar and tasting at Willamette Valley Vineyard in Oregon they talked about the various PN clones they have in their vineyard and what each clone brought to the finished wine. I thought , because there are so many PN clones and they can deliver quite different wines, that multi-clonal PN vineyards were standard, and the different mix was why Winery X's PN wine differed from Winery Y's wines.

It seems that the reason Winery X's PN wine differs from Winery Y's PN then could be because they have different clones in their mono-clonal vineyard.

So it's even more important for PN drinkers to find which clone their favourite vineyard is planted with in order to find other PNs which will be to their taste..
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Thanks...

by TomHill » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:06 am

Peter May wrote:
TomHill wrote:
It is also well-known that PinotNoir (and Nebbiolo) mutate at the drop of a hat. You plant a vnyd to Clone 777 and, after a number of yrs, there will be Pinot vines that are no longer identical to Clone 777 that you originally planted. I'd be curious to know if a good grower can observe if/when one of his Pinot vines has mutated??



There's an article (link below) by Anne Krebiehl MW who argues that PN doesn't mutate so easily, but that weather conditions can affect it so much that it looks different. She starts with

the entirely false assumption, repeated with sufficient frequency to become accepted as truth by many, that Pinot Noir is somehow more prone to mutation and less genetically stable than other Vitis vinifera varieties. but ........ “Pinot has hundreds of clones simply because it is very old, not because it is naturally more prone to mutation than other
varieties.”


I am one who has repeated that 'accepted truth' :)

http://www.anneinvino.com/wp-content/up ... r-WOFW.pdf

TomHill wrote:
I also find out that when you buy (say) Clone 777 from a grapevine supplier that it is illegal for the grower to propagate that clone in his vnyd or sell plant material to other growers. That is, it is illegal to do a selection massale in your own vnyd. Sounds like a rule that was imposed by the Trump-run Dept of Agriculture to rein in those unruly growers.


Trump is innocent on this. 777 is a proprietary clone. The fee on it goes to support the work of ENTAV who own the plant breeders rights (PBR).

I don't know how many vineyard owners do their own selection, as they'd also have to either have a mother vine rootstock or source rootstocks and graft them together. Most commercial vineyards buy their grafted vines form a nursery, for 777 it would have to be authorised to propagate 777 and the PBR fee would be included in the cost of the vine


Thanks for that link, Peter. Gives a different (true?) perspective on Pinot clones.
My Trump comment was, of course, TFIC.
Tom
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Re: 750Daily: The End of Mono-Clonal Vnyds

by David M. Bueker » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:30 am

The mono clone thing is overstated. Perhaps in small site, but in lots of the bigger CA Pinot vineyards it’s mono clone blocks with multiple clones in the overall vineyard.
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