The place for all things wine, focused on serious wine discussions.
User avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Riesling Guru

Posts

30667

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Wine Focus (March) - Wine 103 "The Wines of Pinot Noir"

by David M. Bueker » Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:29 pm

My how time flies! It's already March, and that means it's time for Wine 103 and Pinot Noir.

Much like our February Chardonnay topic, the wine is not required to be labeled with the grape, but just be a wine that is actually made Pinot Noir. Bourgogne Rouge is just fine. Bourgogne Passetoutgrains is not, because it's a blend with Gamay. Break out a Martinborough Pinot, something from the Sonoma Coast, Willamette Valley or even South Africa if you have some. Feeling sporty? Open an Echezeaux or Clos de la Roche. It's all part of exploring the beguiling and often fickle charms of Pinot Noir.

Know of any good values in Pinot Noir? Let everyone know. Pinot tends to be a grape where the price floor is a little higher for decent quality, but there have to be a few values left in the world. There's so much Pinot being made that there have to be a few hidden gems. I've got one that I will post on later in the month.
Decisions are made by those who show up
User avatar
User

Jenise

Rank

FLDG Dishwasher

Posts

37040

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:45 pm

Location

The Pacific Northest Westest

Re: Wine Focus (March) - Wine 103 "The Wines of Pinot Noir"

by Jenise » Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:26 pm

Pinot tends to be a grape where the price floor is a little higher for decent quality


So true, but now that pinot's 'a thing' it's getting much much better. There's so much pinot around!

I remember long ago, after my initial smittance with the grape, lamenting that there were good cheap cabs, good cheap name-the-other-red-grape, but no good cheap pinot noirs. Anything presented as a 'value' in that space generally sucked. Maybe if you'd never had an Echezaux or a William Selyem you might think a screechy Duck Pond okay enough, but with pinot there seemed no middle ground for those of us who'd converted the way there was in every other category of red wine. Another way of looking at it: you either spent $40, or you went without. Not true anymore, thank god!
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
User avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Riesling Guru

Posts

30667

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: Wine Focus (March) - Wine 103 "The Wines of Pinot Noir"

by David M. Bueker » Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:08 pm

Yeah, I remember those days. Under $25 Pinot was a nightmare. Now, with some careful buying, there are a number of appellation level wines, out of Oregon especially, that really scratch the Pinot itch.
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

Rahsaan

Rank

Wild and Crazy Guy

Posts

8567

Joined

Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:20 pm

Location

Chapel Hill, NC

Re: Wine Focus (March) - Wine 103 "The Wines of Pinot Noir"

by Rahsaan » Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:35 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:Yeah, I remember those days. Under $25 Pinot was a nightmare. Now, with some careful buying, there are a number of appellation level wines, out of Oregon especially, that really scratch the Pinot itch.


I don't get around to Oregon, but at that price am more likely to find cheap and cheerful German Spätburgunder that are welcome drinking options for me. Locally, Falkenstein and Koehler Ruprecht are the two in that price range that are generally worth buying and drinking.
User avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Riesling Guru

Posts

30667

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: Wine Focus (March) - Wine 103 "The Wines of Pinot Noir"

by David M. Bueker » Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:13 pm

I actually have a Falkenstein ready to go for this month.

Decided to start early with a 2017 Henri Jouan Coteaux Bourguignons Cuvee Thomas. $25, and drinks very well. The friendly 2017 vintage certainly helps.
Decisions are made by those who show up
User avatar
User

Bob Parsons Alberta

Rank

aka Doris

Posts

10525

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:09 pm

Re: Wine Focus (March) - Wine 103 "The Wines of Pinot Noir"

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:04 pm

That will be nice David...eagerly awaiting!
User avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Riesling Guru

Posts

30667

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: Wine Focus (March) - Wine 103 "The Wines of Pinot Noir"

by David M. Bueker » Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:13 pm

2017 Henri Jouan Coteaux Bourguignons Vieilles Vignes - France, Burgundy, Coteaux Bourguignons (3/2/2021)
Fresh, fruity, and easy drinking up front, but the finish also has some chalky, phenolic presence. Finishing up the bottle 48 hours after I initially opened it (kept in the fridge), and it still has fresh raspberry fruit and a solid acid core. Lovely value at about $25. Should be a fun drink over the next few years.
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

Pat G

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

443

Joined

Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:48 am

Re: Wine Focus (March) - Wine 103 "The Wines of Pinot Noir"

by Pat G » Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:17 pm

Good values in PN? Marlborough in NZ can sometimes be had for <$12 around here. For about $25 Casablanca in Chile, although that surpasses good values IMHO.
User avatar
User

Jenise

Rank

FLDG Dishwasher

Posts

37040

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:45 pm

Location

The Pacific Northest Westest

Re: Wine Focus (March) - Wine 103 "The Wines of Pinot Noir"

by Jenise » Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:10 am

Pat G wrote:Good values in PN? Marlborough in NZ can sometimes be had for <$12 around here.


But those will always be large production wines, not the Pali/Patricia Green equivalent boutique stuff. Big difference.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
User avatar
User

Jenise

Rank

FLDG Dishwasher

Posts

37040

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:45 pm

Location

The Pacific Northest Westest

Re: Wine Focus (March) - Wine 103 "The Wines of Pinot Noir"

by Jenise » Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:01 pm

I should also have added that the decent cheap pinots available now are due to a worldwide surplus that didn't exist 30 years ago, the approximate time frame we're referring to when mentioning Duck Pond etc.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
no avatar
User

Pat G

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

443

Joined

Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:48 am

Re: Wine Focus (March) - Wine 103 "The Wines of Pinot Noir"

by Pat G » Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:01 pm

Certainly good points, Jenise. Pali/P Green are on a different level than <$12 wines.

I did have a Dashwood PN, Marlborough that was decent a few years ago. Fabulous, no. But it tasted like PN. Unlike domestics in that category (Mark West is an example). In some cases, these may appropriately labeled PN. But it seems that due to blending grapes taste unlike pure PN to me. JMHO.

As for Casablanca Valley, Chile, Kingston PN is very good IMHO. Entry-level is $26 per website. Would be interesting to blind taste that vs. Pali and P Green.
User avatar
User

Jenise

Rank

FLDG Dishwasher

Posts

37040

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:45 pm

Location

The Pacific Northest Westest

Re: Wine Focus (March) - Wine 103 "The Wines of Pinot Noir"

by Jenise » Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:21 pm

Pat, I've only had a few Chilean pinots (3, maybe 4) but they were all awful. Every single one had a mean green component that reminded me of cactus. Not something I've encountered anywhere else, it seems particular to Chileans though I haven't a clue why it should be there.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
User avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Riesling Guru

Posts

30667

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: Wine Focus (March) - Wine 103 "The Wines of Pinot Noir"

by David M. Bueker » Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:49 pm

Sipping on a 2018 Mugneret-Gibourg Bourgogne right now, to low-key celebrate one year since the doctor gave me the "all-clear" from the biopsies. It's deep, and rather rich for a Bourgogne, but never tips the scales into heavy or alcoholic. It also never develops the overt fruitiness of new world Pinot Noir. It has fruit, but it's somehow throttled - never allowed to just run. I appreciate the element of restraint that also hints at being held back. Burgundy still beats climate change. Who knows for how long.
Decisions are made by those who show up
User avatar
User

Glenn Mackles

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

451

Joined

Fri Aug 18, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Virginia

Re: Wine Focus (March) - Wine 103 "The Wines of Pinot Noir"

by Glenn Mackles » Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:34 pm

We are big fans of Sea Smoke here.
"If you can find something everyone agrees on, it's wrong." Mo Udall
no avatar
User

Tim York

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

4744

Joined

Tue May 09, 2006 2:48 pm

Location

near Lisieux, France

Re: Wine Focus (March) - Wine 103 "The Wines of Pinot Noir"

by Tim York » Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:38 pm

David M. Bueker wrote: Burgundy still beats climate change. Who knows for how long.


That's a very good question. Climate is a crucial quality factor in Burgundy, as is witnessed by the fact that "climat" is the word used by Burgundians to mean vineyard site, the best of which enjoy appellations of their own, e.g. Chambertin. The Burgundians claim that the exposure of the site to sun, wind, rain and its height and slope are as much as the soil and sub-soil responsible for the characteristics and quality of a cru. In many cases the present day top crus are those where the grapes have ripened best and there is a very real possibility that climate warming may render many of their sites too hot to maintain that quality, while some of the cooler sites improve and potentially take their place.

Vested interests will fight against any recognition of quality decline in former quality leaders and any change in official hierarchies. That means that there could be lots of opportunities for buying relatively cheap and excellent wine from sites benefiting from climate change, in the Côte d'Or itself, in the Hautes-Côtes and further north in the Auxerrois, Irancy, Epineuil, etc. As generic appellations like Bourgogne tend to be sourced from lesser (sometimes cooler?) sites, climate change could be beneficial to quality there too.

I think that it will require a lot of local knowledge to know which sites are benefiting and I certainly don't have that.

Obviously, if it gets too hot, then Pinot Noir will need to find another home :( and the Burgundians might think about planting Syrah, Grenache, etc.
Tim York
User avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Riesling Guru

Posts

30667

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: Wine Focus (March) - Wine 103 "The Wines of Pinot Noir"

by David M. Bueker » Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:32 pm

I think different trellising and harvest techniques will handle things for a while yet. By the time it gets totally out of hand I doubt you or I will be buying Burgundy anyway.
Decisions are made by those who show up
User avatar
User

Robin Garr

Rank

Forum Janitor

Posts

21395

Joined

Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:44 pm

Location

Louisville, KY

Re: Wine Focus (March) - Wine 103 "The Wines of Pinot Noir"

by Robin Garr » Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:54 pm

A very nice Willamette Pinot Noir, excellent QPR in the mid-teens:

King Estate 2018 "Inscription" Willamette Valley Pinot Noir ($16.99)

Inscription, a new Pinot bottling from Oregon's King Estate, offers an attractive mix of black and red fruit – tart black cherries and fresh strawberries and strawberry liqueur – that waft from the glass along with a whiff of woodsmoke. The aromas carry over intact on the palate, framed by brisk, mouth-watering acidity and soft tannins. A touch of spicy French oak accents without overcoming the good varietal Oregon Pinot character. Its good Pinot flavors and fruit-acid balance with moderate 13.5% alcohol make it an excellent table wine. (March 4, 2021)

FOOD MATCH: Pinot Noir's classic companion is beef, but wild salmon earns its place at the table, and so do savory mushroom dishes like our choice, a rich roast-mushroom risotto.

WHEN TO DRINK: It's drinking beautifully now and doesn't appear to be a wine meant for long cellaring, but its good balance and sturdy protective screwcap should ensure it drinking well over several years.

VALUE:
I managed to squeak in just under Wine-Searcher.com's $18 average U.S. retail, but to be honest, I'd pay up to $20 and even a little beyond for this approachable Pinot Noir.

WEB LINK:
Here's a detailed fact sheet for the 2019 vintage on the King Estate web page.

FIND THIS WINE ONLINE:
Check prices and find vendors for King Estate "Inscription" Willamette Valley Pinot Noir on Wine-Searcher.com.

Follow this Wine-Searcher link to learn more about Oregon's Willamette Valley and find shop listings for many more wines of the region.

Read about Pinot Noir at this Wine-Searcher link, and learn more about Burgundy at this link, with dozens of vendor and price listings for each.
User avatar
User

Jenise

Rank

FLDG Dishwasher

Posts

37040

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:45 pm

Location

The Pacific Northest Westest

Re: Wine Focus (March) - Wine 103 "The Wines of Pinot Noir"

by Jenise » Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:55 pm

Sounds like a great value pinot, Robin. Haven't seen that label before (not that I've seen any wine shelves in about a year). Seems in line with what a lot of Oregon wineries are doing, bringing on second labels (so they can up the price of their flagship brand).
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
User avatar
User

Jenise

Rank

FLDG Dishwasher

Posts

37040

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:45 pm

Location

The Pacific Northest Westest

Re: Wine Focus (March) - Wine 103 "The Wines of Pinot Noir"

by Jenise » Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:34 pm

Finally got to open a bottle!

2012 Reuling Vineyard Pinot Noir Sonoma Coast
Flavors from my first bottle in 2017 persist: complex dark red fruits with black raspberry, clove, and cinnamon bark, but now showing incense on the nose and mushroom soy and some loamy notes on the palate. Medium full body. Very atypical for a Sonoma Coast pinot (sweet, no saline for example), blind I'd have guessed Oregon. Holding up very well.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
User avatar
User

Paul Winalski

Rank

Wok Wielder

Posts

5705

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:16 pm

Location

Merrimack, New Hampshire

Re: Wine Focus (March) - Wine 103 "The Wines of Pinot Noir"

by Paul Winalski » Sun Mar 07, 2021 11:58 am

1997 Beaune 1er Cru Les Vignes Franches "Clos des Ursules", Louis Jadot

The Clos des Ursules is a walled vineyard that officially is part of the larger 1er Cru lieu dit Les Vignes Franches. It is wholly owned by Jadot but isn't officially a monopole since it's part of a larger official vineyard. This, folks, is what mature, classic red Burgundy is all about. Deep, brick-red color. Complex fruit aromas with a hint of smoke that jump up from the glass to greet you. The full, complex flavors that pinot noir produces in the Cote de Beaune. Fully resolved tannin and seamless integration of acidity. Long finish. No hurry to drink this one up, but why wait? A triple Curly.

-Paul W.
User avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Riesling Guru

Posts

30667

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: Wine Focus (March) - Wine 103 "The Wines of Pinot Noir"

by David M. Bueker » Sun Mar 07, 2021 12:22 pm

Jadot was one of the few producers who actually nailed it in 1997.
Decisions are made by those who show up
User avatar
User

Jenise

Rank

FLDG Dishwasher

Posts

37040

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:45 pm

Location

The Pacific Northest Westest

Re: Wine Focus (March) - Wine 103 "The Wines of Pinot Noir"

by Jenise » Sun Mar 07, 2021 2:37 pm

Oh, love me some Ursules. Can't top that one, Paul!
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
no avatar
User

Pat G

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

443

Joined

Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:48 am

Re: Wine Focus (March) - Wine 103 "The Wines of Pinot Noir"

by Pat G » Sun Mar 07, 2021 11:08 pm

Jenise wrote:Oh, love me some Ursules. Can't top that one, Paul!


That I've had. And it is good. Back a few years ago at World of Pinot Noir.
User avatar
User

Jenise

Rank

FLDG Dishwasher

Posts

37040

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:45 pm

Location

The Pacific Northest Westest

Re: Wine Focus (March) - Wine 103 "The Wines of Pinot Noir"

by Jenise » Mon Mar 08, 2021 4:07 pm

Pat, you need to try one that's 25 years old! That will rock your world.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Tim York and 10 guests

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign