Wine list rant/vent

Perusing a 150+ page wine list ahead of a dinner, and these folks divide the wines into three main categories: fruit, terroir, and signature. Naturally, some producers fall into multiple categories, depending on the specific cuvee. How does that benefit anyone?!

This is clearly maddening for folks like us, who prefer to see things organized by region and producer. But how is the average punter supposed to navigate these categories, without any clue of the difference between fruit and terroir, let alone 'signature'!

The restaurant has been around for 7+ years and lots of good things on the list, so I guess they're selling wines. But all the more reason to have gotten feedback by now that this system is not helpful! Or maybe I'm out of touch... Or maybe both things are simultaneously true...

[David M. Bueker]

Does the restaurant have significant wine staff and knowledgeable servers to help guide people?

It does sound strange. What’s the restaurant? Care to share the link to the list?

I'm expecting good service and knowledgeable staff. It's a Michelin 1-star, so there should be a basic level of something. But they're also known for their 'attitude' of aggressive hipster localism with the food, and trying to be 'different'. That already comes across a bit in this useless typology for the wine list!

Here's the list (sometimes loads slowly)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TaUS7evgFwMQqNCYoO_4-TOz5BrdhLAa/view

Landing page for menu and list
https://www.nobelhartundschmutzig.com/en/supper/

[David M. Bueker]

Well their J. J. Prüm prices are good!

Given what has happened with Ulysses Colin pricing those are not so bad either.

Well their J. J. Prüm prices are good!

Given what has happened with Ulysses Colin pricing those are not so bad either.

I may be leaning towards 2001 JJ Christoffel UW Spat for 95 euros. I know you have stacks of 01s, but for me the pleasures are few and far between, and there are lots of memories with that wine. Prum not far behind on my list. And yes, even with their silly attitude, I'm expecting good food and reasonably-priced wine in an 'interesting' atmosphere.

[David M. Bueker]

The attitude definitely came through in the list commentaries.

I agree. It's a very irritating and arbitrary classification. What is a sommelier's function if not to guide the customer in the style of the wines and their pairing suitability?

That said, it's a fabulous choice on offer; much more international than one would ever find in France. However, some of the pricing of French wines seems a bit steep, e.g. Muscadet, Loire, Languedoc. Burgundy a bit less so, perhaps because if they applied similar marks-up to present day retail prices, the prices would be out of reach even for billionaires .

...some of the pricing of French wines seems a bit steep, e.g. Muscadet, Loire, Languedoc...

Don't go dining in high-end US restaurants!

[David M. Bueker]

...some of the pricing of French wines seems a bit steep, e.g. Muscadet, Loire, Languedoc...

Don't go dining in high-end US restaurants!

Exactly! I found the markups quite tame.

Another big failing in a wine list is not keeping it current.

We ate at a very well reputed restaurant some years ago, located in a refurbished house in an outlying Vancouver suburb. They had a huge wine list, thankfully organized by area, but the shortcoming was that it was probably the same list they had compiled when they opened several years before.

To make matters worse the 'cellar' was kept up in the attic and we were dining on a very hot day in summer. I assume that they had a cooled room up there as the wines we got in the end were in good shape, but we started by asking for a wine. The waiter clumped up the stairs and was heard rooting around before coming down and telling us that they were out of that wine. This was repeated not once but about eight times and by the time they managed to find a bottle that was actually in stock, the overheated waiter looked like he had come to work via canal - he was a hot soggy mess. Although we advised the owner of this, I'm not sure whether they ever revised that list!

Great choices, horrible organization.