WTN: The Icewomen Cometh...and drink Bordeaux

In spite of the early morning snow on this wintry day, three of us set out from the hinterlands of Long Island and braved the frigid temperatures and met a fourth for our long awaited dinner at Gramercy Tavern.
No theme was planned, although we did have a pre-arranged white, and it turned out to be a “no theme, theme,” since three of us arrived with Bordeaux of various estates and vintages.
For dinner, we selected the Winter Tasting Menu which afforded us enough courses to enjoy our four bottles of wine.
We started with a 1999 Bonneau du Martray Corton – I found the wine to be either very closed or possibly flawed. On the nose, I thought I detected some TCA, but didn’t notice it on the palate. It was a wine I had difficulty understanding.
Our first course was marinated calamari with Meyer lemon and toasted pine nuts. This was followed by Spanish mackerel. These nicely prepared and creative dishes were my favorite courses of the dinner.
One more fish course was a black sea bass with cauliflower puree, braised endive, and American Caviar.
We opened a 1998 Tertre Roteboeuf – deep and dark with a gorgeous ripe nose, intense, mouth filling fruit with a jolt of dark cherries. The tannins surrounded the sweet fruit suggesting its youth and a very long life ahead. A finish that faded too soon disappointed me, but, otherwise, an impressive wine.
The next course was roast chicken (not as mundane as it sounds). One of us substituted a beef stew and papardelle with Parmesan cheese for the chicken, but it actually was papardelle with a little beef. In any case, it looked good.
We then poured a 1990 Leoville Poyferre – soft herbal and minty nose. Fresh tasting and ripe, showing good complexity with resolved tannins. Very harmonious and satisfying.
The last meat course was rack of lamb on braised fennel.
Our last wine was saved for the lamb - 1982 Vieux Chateau Certan – muted nose (or my nose had closed up), sweet tasting with some spice. Fresh with good weight. A complete package, and very nice.
We finished up any remaining wine with a pleasant cheese course, followed by a couple of very good desserts. We almost had a 1989 Yquem, but someone suggested we didn’t need it. Right….as if we needed any of this.
Great night, and I couldn't believe how quickly more than four hours passed.
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Imagine what the tab would be for those wines selected off a Restaurant wine list! If you have a well stocked cellar, especially one that contains wines of lengthening tooth, far better to absorb the bottle charge.
Did you need to tell them beforehand that you were bringing your own wine? And I am curious Diane, how much was the service charge on the wines at the Gramercy Tavern? Tom V

Tom - I never would have ordered those bottles off a list. We were happy to pay the corkage of $30 per. Service was excellent. We were asked how we would like them to handle our wines regarding decanting and the order in which we wanted them served. I informed the restaurant the day before when confirming that we would be bringing wine. I've done this before at Gramercy Tavern and they have been very accomodating.

Tom - I never would have ordered those bottles off a list. We were happy to pay the corkage of $30 per. Service was excellent. We were asked how we would like them to handle our wines regarding decanting and the order in which we wanted them served. I informed the restaurant the day before when confirming that we would be bringing wine. I've done this before at Gramercy Tavern and they have been very accomodating.

Yeah, that's definitely reasonable. I paid $35. per bottle in the Stone Creek Inn out your way and I was thrilled to have the opportunity! The mid 80's Bordeaux we drank would have required a mortgage if selected off a wine list!
Kind of a peculiarity of cellaring wine. I imagine a non enthusiast would regard paying $30. a bottle to drink you own wine as a form of lunacy! Of course, explaining that you paid $18. when you purchased it, that it has been perfectly aged, and that it costs $120 on the wine list might serve to clarify the issue!
By the way, would you recommend the Gramercy Tavern on the strength of it's food preparation and pricing? Tom V

I've been to Stone Creek Inn many times, but I don't remember paying as much as $35 corkage. I could be mistaken, but I thought it more like $25. Was this recently?

I thought Gramercy Tavern was very good, but I liked the food more last year when we ordered the regular prix fixe. The tasting menu didn't thrill me. I thought we could have used another course or slightly larger portions, and I am not a big eater. Two of the others requested, and were served, another lamb chop. If I return, I might avoid the tasting menu. I'm a big fan of all Danny Meyer's restaurants, and recent dinners at 11 Madison Park have surpassed GT.

Wonder if 11 Madison has the same bottle charge policy. Anyway sounds like the Gramercy Tavern is worth a try.

I too have been to the Stone Creek several times and I've always been impressed. The dinner I spoke of was probably about 4 yrs ago and I am almost certain the charge was $35, maybe they've lowered it...that's good news as I plan to revisit when the weather improves!

By the way, I am honored to have had you elevated to the rank & status of an "Uber Geek" whilst in conversation with 'lil ole me! Tom V

Our last wine was saved for the lamb - 1982 Vieux Chateau Certan – muted nose (or my nose had closed up)

Hi Diane,

Maybe it was the smoke! But you didn't mention any. When my wife Lynn and I were there recently, we could hardly taste our wine over the smoke and the food lost its subtleties. The waiter assured me that the permeating smoke from the wood stove cooker in the middle of the restaurant is a regular treat that the patrons love; it adds a nice rustic ambience, he said.

Michelin gave the restaurant one star, which I thought was liberal, given the smoke, sporatic lackluster dishes and tiny portions; but Matt Cramer couldn't believe that they dissed it. I can't believe that a wood smoke filled restaurant can remain the most popular "fine" restaurant in NYC.

Did you not notice the smoke, or do they sometimes forego the wood stove or turn up the exhaust fan? Or doesn't it bother you? I really wonder what is going on that nobody ever mentions it???

Have you tried The Harrison, yet? It's a Red Cat sister restaurant, which you probably know. We'll be going in a couple of weeks. We have the Red Cat cookbook and have found a lot of really nice recipes in it.

Best,

Covert

Tom V,

We were charged a very reasonable corkage of $25 when we last dined at Eleven Madison park late last year. Everything then, from service to the dishes, were impeccable and well executed.

As for Gramercy Tavern, they have a new chef, Michael Anthony, who just recently took over the kitchen. Frankly, I was finding the place lackluster and predictably un-exciting the few times that we've dined there prior to the chef change. However, Diane's report, plus a few other positive ones that I have heard from friends who have dined there recently, make me want to try the place out sometime very soon.

Ramon

However, Diane's report, plus a few other positive ones that I have heard from friends who have dined there recently, make me want to try the place out sometime very soon.

Ramon, did you ever notice the smoke there?

Tom V,

We were charged a very reasonable corkage of $25 when we last dined at Eleven Madison park late last year. Everything then, from service to the dishes, were impeccable and well executed.

Ramon

Thanks for that info Ramon. Sounds like both of these places are worth a trip, with my fine bottles in tow! Tom V

Diane, Ramon, would one of you consider answering my question about the smoke when you get a chance? I feel like I am in some kind of "emperor has no clothes" bad dream. I have brought up this major flaw several times and it seems nobody wants to address it. So humor me, would you? Thanks.

Covert

Diane, Ramon, would one of you consider answering my question about the smoke when you get a chance? I feel like I am in some kind of "emperor has no clothes" bad dream. I have brought up this major flaw several times and it seems nobody wants to address it. So humor me, would you? Thanks. Covert

I had to tag this on because apparently you can't edit something that you post and then exit out of.

I told my wife what I posted. She said I should have said that Iconsider wood smoke in a restaurant to be a major flaw, since as the waiter told us, the patrons like it. Most Gramercy patrons don't know jack about wine, judging from what I saw them drinking there; so I am very interested in what Diane thinks.

Also, my wife pointed out that we live with a wood stove almost every weekend. Sometimes I inadvertently let a puff into the room and get in trouble with Lynn for being so clumsy. We can't taste the wine correctly after my accident. But, she said, many people aren't around wood smoke a lot and might not focus on it, or even notice it, if they run into it someplace. That's probably the answer why somebody as wine savvy as Matt Cramer would think the Gramercy Restaurant was so great. (And he might have ordered a California fruit bomb, I guess, and not had a problem tasting it.)

Covert - sorry for the delay in responding.

There was no noticeable smoke in the restaurant. We sat in the back room which is furthest from the open kitchen. I agree with you that some of the dishes were lackluster, most of all the lamb. The fish preparations showed more creativity and I enjoyed them quite a bit. Dessert was delicious, service was very nice, but nothing excited me except for our sensational wines.

I was at the Harrison one time and enjoyed it. It doesn't have the same relaxed feel of Red Cat, but it was a nice menu and the food was well prepared. Have you been to Annisa? I highly recommend it - tantalizing food and lovely service.

Covert - I wasn't ignoring your requests for my opinion on the smoke situation at GR. I'm sorry it may have seemed that way. For some reason, I didn't receive an email notice about the reply to my post.

We always sit in back, never had smoke bother us. GT hasn't been most inventive foodwise, but always enjoyed the total experience.

It's been three years since my visit to Gramercy Tavern and I believe I was seated in a small back room. Don't recall any smoke. I loved my meal and wine selection (a glass of Nicolas Potel or Colin-Deleger Volnay as I recall with perhaps a Gruner Veltliner with the appetizer) and intend to revisit the restaurant in June of this year. On that trip I also ate at Wallse (great for Austrian/German food) and Triomphe and had good meals at both places but felt Gramercy Tavern stood out.

Covert - sorry for the delay in responding.

There was no noticeable smoke in the restaurant....
I was at the Harrison one time and enjoyed it. It doesn't have the same relaxed feel of Red Cat, but it was a nice menu and the food was well prepared. Have you been to Annisa? I highly recommend it - tantalizing food and lovely service.

Thanks, Diane. I think this forum's software prompts you the first time someone responds to your post, but not after that.

I really wonder if the smoke was there but not noticeable to you because it kind of goes with the woodwork. When you mentioned your nose possibly being closed, it made it suspect. Wood smoke within an Adirondack-esque, rustic motif could be insidious to a wine drinker, like the just-below-recognition level of TCA; only worse, because by itself it isn't unpleasant. And the waiter told me that the smoke is always there. I'm going to try to get the sommelier to tell me if there is a problem or not. I'm just curious; don't plan to go back. Lynn wants to step in to just check out our assumption. since we are experts at detecting low levels of wood smoke.

We might very well try Annisa upon your recommendation, unless Lynn has a special reason to stick with Harrison.

Covert - I have been to GT four times, and I am very sensitive to odors, and believe I would have detected an offputting smoke odor. It may be there, but it wasn't registering on my usually acute odor detector. You may have a lower tolerance.

Regarding Annisa, it is run by two women (one is the chef, and the other runs the front of the house), and the wine list is comprised of wines from women winemakers, or vineyards owned by women. "Annisa" is the Arabic word for "women." I've been there three times, and each time I have been impressed.

Covert - I think it's you I get email notices for all replies, except yours.

Regarding Annisa, it is run by two women (one is the chef, and the other runs the front of the house), and the wine list is comprised of wines from women winemakers, or vineyards owned by women. "Annisa" is the Arabic word for "women." I've been there three times, and each time I have been impressed.

I wonder if Anais, as in Anais Nin, the writer, has a similar root. I'm assuming the restaurant doesn't discourage male patronage, or you wouldn't have recommended it.

I'll keep you posted on what more I learn about GT.