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Wine Focus May 2025 - GaMay and Philip the Bold

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Wine Focus May 2025 - GaMay and Philip the Bold

by David M. Bueker » Wed Apr 30, 2025 4:51 pm

It’s May, and that’s the month we celebrate Gamay on the WLDG. But Gamay has had its ups and downs over the years, most notably down in 1395 when Philip the Bold banished the grape from Burgundy proper. We won’t even get into the scourge of Georges Duboeuf.

While Gamay has been on more of an upswing the last 25+ years, it still faces challenges from climate (oh those dreaded “solar” vintages) and the lingering reputational curse of cheap Nouveau. It’s also a grape that has been at the forefront of the natural wine movement, which has had positive results, but can go too far for some.

So what’s your “bold” take on Gamay these days?
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Re: Wine Focus May 2025 - GaMay and Philip the Bold

by Jenise » Wed Apr 30, 2025 11:37 pm

I can love it, but I've tasted more frogs than princes in recent years and have kind of backed away. Also, prices on favorites (Foillard, to name one) have jacked up quite a bit and the lack of bargains, relatively speaking, means gamay now has more competition for my attention. And then there's the fact that I've cut way back on buying since I'm no longer buying for two.
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Re: Wine Focus May 2025 - GaMay and Philip the Bold

by David M. Bueker » Thu May 01, 2025 10:06 am

Pricing and excessive inventory (not of Gamay, but wine in general) have definitely affected my buying. My favorite, Thivin, has crested $40 for the basic bottling at local retail. The wine is definitely a $40 quality level, but it gets crowded out as so many excellent wines are still in the $25-$35 range.
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Re: Wine Focus May 2025 - GaMay and Philip the Bold

by Paul Winalski » Thu May 01, 2025 11:03 am

In addition to the scourge of the Georges Duboeuf Banana Republic, gamay's reputation suffered in the US due to confusion over several different varieties being grown in California under the name "gamay". I assume modern genetic analysis has sorted that all out.

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Re: Wine Focus May 2025 - GaMay and Philip the Bold

by David M. Bueker » Thu May 01, 2025 11:11 am

I admittedly have my doubts that the Gamay/Valdiguié confusion played any major role in the issues for true Gamay. There’s been so little of either variety in the new world that it would not seem to move the needle.
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Re: Wine Focus May 2025 - GaMay and Philip the Bold

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Thu May 01, 2025 12:45 pm

Gamay..oooh yeah. Know a few from Ontario/Niagara. :D

Old Vines Foch also worth exploring.
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Re: Wine Focus May 2025 - GaMay and Philip the Bold

by Steve Edmunds » Thu May 01, 2025 2:00 pm

Back in the early '70s, when I first began in the business, there was an importer in the Bay Area who sold the wines from the negociants Philippe Bonsal and Freddy Seggerman, which included wines from a number of the Beaujolais Crus, and they quickly became favorites of mine at that time: Gamay's charms in consistent abundance, beguiling as could be.
When I first tasted wines from California labeled either Gamay or Gamay Beaujolais, I was always disappointed. Didn't take long to discover that Gamay Beaujolais was actually a clone of Pinot Noir, and it seemed like a pretty bad idea to permit those wines to be labeled as Gamay.
And then there's the other wine permitted to be labeled "Gamay," the late-ripening Valdiguie, without anything like the charm of Gamay, and back in those days labeling that variety by its own name would have made it even more difficult to sell. (At least you could pronounce Gamay, even if it didn't taste right.) I think with those two blunders got wrapped around the name of the grape that wasn't even growing (except in, perhaps, one or two mixed-black field blends) anywhere in the state, combined with the growth in the demand for Cabernet, and a few other grapes for making "important" wines (i.e., lucrative), nobody got too interested in charming wines.
By 1999, when ESJ was in its 15th year of existence, the all-Cabernet, all-Chardonnay model had begun to elicit a few yawns, and I'd gotten interested in exploring the possibility of getting Ron Mansfield to plant a little Gamay for me at one of the cooler high-elevation sites near Placerville. I'd also
discovered that John Caldwell, a Napa grower and Cabernet producer, had started a nursery operation, and when he called me one day to see if I was interested in any of the plant material he was developing, new clones of Syrah, etc., I asked him if he might be able to offer any Gamay--the real stuff. He said he had a couple of clones. I told him where I though we might want to plant it, and he narrowed it down to one. I told him I'd stay in touch.
A week or two after that, Ron told me he'd like to drive down to the Central coast and visit some vineyards to see what was going on down there that might be of interest. (Ron managed a lot of properties in the Placerville area, that supplied small-scale wine producers like me, and he wanted to expand what he might have to offer)
We set off one morning in late Spring of '99, and on our drive he told me about a client who'd grown Bartlett pears for a few decades, who had decided he'd be better off growing wine grapes (globalization seemed to be killing the market for orchard fruits). He told me the property was at between 3300 and 3400 feet elevation, and the soil was volcanic clay-loam--Aiken loam, to be exact, a predominant soil type around Placerville. He asked if I had any ideas for what variety might do well there. "Pinot Gris?" he asked, knowing I was interested in a new source for that.
"Well, sure," I said, "that does sound like a good match." I paused, my heart skipped a beat. "But what I'd love to see in a site like that would be Gamay." I knew Ron was unlikely to know just what I meant. "Isn't that what Ken Johnson had planted at his place on Carson Road, just a ways up from GoldBud? He had trouble getting that stuff ripe, a lot of years, didn't he?"
"That's a grape called Valdiguie," I said; "it's legal to call it Gamay, but it's a completely different grape. Gamay ripens at the
beginning of the harvest season; Valdiguie gets ripe way toward the end." I told Ron all the things I knew about Gamay that made it attractive for a farmer, and also the things about the wine it made that I really liked.
That evening Ron had dinner at our house in Berkeley, and stayed the night. Before dinner I pulled three bottles of Cru Beaujolais from the cellar, a Fleurie, a Morgon, and a Moulin a Vent. I think we had pork, vegetables, and a salad. Ron was amazed at how lovely the wines were, like a kid in a candy store for the first time.
He went to see Bob Witters at the pear orchard site up above Placerville, and the following Spring Bob planted four acres of Gamay and three of Pinot Gris. The first intentional planting of Gamay ever, in California.
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Re: Wine Focus May 2025 - GaMay and Philip the Bold

by David M. Bueker » Thu May 01, 2025 3:02 pm

Thanks for the great history Steve!
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Re: Wine Focus May 2025 - GaMay and Philip the Bold

by Rahsaan » Thu May 01, 2025 8:15 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:Pricing and excessive inventory (not of Gamay, but wine in general) have definitely affected my buying. My favorite, Thivin, has crested $40 for the basic bottling at local retail. The wine is definitely a $40 quality level, but it gets crowded out as so many excellent wines are still in the $25-$35 range.


Not so much pricing for me, as I don't think Beaujolais is necessarily more expensive than other 'value' regions for comparable red wine. Plus, there has been an explosion of high-quality artisanal Beaujolais available in the US. It used to be overwhelmingly dominated by the handful of producers imported by Kermit and Dressner, plus a few others, but now there are so many names.

In my case, red Burgundy is my clear top tier red wine focus, followed (distantly) by Piedmont. When I'm looking for other options to offset the cost and provide younger-drinking bottles, I float around different regions, so Beaujolais comes in and out. But I still love the wines!
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Re: Wine Focus May 2025 - GaMay and Philip the Bold

by Tim York » Fri May 02, 2025 7:16 am

We continue to drink a lot of Gamay, mostly from Beaujolais but also from Touraine and Côte Roannaise. Remembering delicious cru Beaujolais costing <FRF5, I have a mental blockage about paying more than €20 (c. FRF140) for Beaujolais which means that I have little experience of the burgeoning cult producers but most of the ranges of solid performers like Chermette and Brun remain accessible. Otherwise I manage to pick up very drinkable crus from less well known producers for <€10, particularly during the Foires aux Vins.

By contrast, we drink very little Pinot Noir Burgundy nowadays. €20 is just about the bottom price for well sourced generic Bourgogne or Côte Chalonnaise, which represents very poor QPR compared with €10 from most other regions, while my few remaining bottles of well sourced Côte d'Or look destined for the auctioneer.
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Re: Wine Focus May 2025 - GaMay and Philip the Bold

by Paul Winalski » Fri May 02, 2025 10:49 am

Cru Beaujolais shows up now and then at the NH State Liquor Stores in their Power Buys discount racks, at very reasonable prices. I've liked all the ones I've tried so far.

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Re: Wine Focus May 2025 - GaMay and Philip the Bold

by Jenise » Fri May 02, 2025 1:03 pm

Is anyone producing Valdiguie in California anymore? I recall seeing some from the J Lohr brand, maybe as recently as ten years ago but not since, and a heavenly sparkling version under crown closure by the guy who makes Ultramarine sparkling wines. Admittedly I don't get around much, but these are best I can recall the only ones I've seen in my lifetime.
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Re: Wine Focus May 2025 - GaMay and Philip the Bold

by David M. Bueker » Fri May 02, 2025 7:15 pm

I thought Cruse also did a still version, or at least a bottling that was primarily Valdigiue.

Broc Cellars also has one.
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Re: Wine Focus May 2025 - GaMay and Philip the Bold

by Rahsaan » Fri May 02, 2025 8:24 pm

Tim York wrote:By contrast, we drink very little Pinot Noir Burgundy nowadays. €20 is just about the bottom price for well sourced generic Bourgogne or Côte Chalonnaise, which represents very poor QPR compared with €10 from most other regions, while my few remaining bottles of well sourced Côte d'Or look destined for the auctioneer.


Sure, make us jealous of your French pricing!

But you're down to a few bottles of precious Burgundy and you prefer to sell rather than drink?
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Re: Wine Focus May 2025 - GaMay and Philip the Bold

by David M. Bueker » Fri May 02, 2025 9:12 pm

I sold a few “overvalued” Burgundies to buy some camera equipment. I only sort of regret it.
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Re: Wine Focus May 2025 - GaMay and Philip the Bold

by Rahsaan » Fri May 02, 2025 9:24 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:I sold a few “overvalued” Burgundies to buy some camera equipment. I only sort of regret it.


Ha!

Did you keep some of them to enjoy, or did you completely sell off your stash of those high-end Burgs? I'm not really in that position, but I can imagine that selling a few bottles is different than selling all bottles and never again being in a position to drink them.
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Re: Wine Focus May 2025 - GaMay and Philip the Bold

by David M. Bueker » Sat May 03, 2025 11:05 am

All of a couple (some wildly overvalued Roumier 1ers and Arnoux-Lachaux) but mostly just a bottle here and bottle there.

Won’t sell any Truchot unless my life depends on it.
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Re: Wine Focus May 2025 - GaMay and Philip the Bold

by Tim York » Sat May 03, 2025 4:11 pm

Rahsaan wrote:But you're down to a few bottles of precious Burgundy and you prefer to sell rather than drink?


I haven't yet sold any, partly because it would make me quite sad. But nor do I find myself opening any of the few bottles from cult producers (also Barolo and N.Rhône) which are now flagged as being worth worth over €500 each and in one or two cases much more. I feel sure of disappointment. I'll have to bite the bullet one day.
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Re: Wine Focus May 2025 - GaMay and Philip the Bold

by David M. Bueker » Sat May 03, 2025 6:51 pm

Tim - I will say that the two “overpriced” bottles I have opened this year both delivered.
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Re: Wine Focus May 2025 - GaMay and Philip the Bold

by Rahsaan » Sat May 03, 2025 8:07 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:Won’t sell any Truchot unless my life depends on it.


Wise decision!
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Re: Wine Focus May 2025 - GaMay and Philip the Bold

by Peter May » Sun May 04, 2025 12:12 pm

We like Gamay but don't drink much of it, no particular reason just there's so many other wines.

For me, Gamay means Beaujolais. We've visited there on a tour organised by our wine tasting group in 2014.One of our group had a contact at Ch de Pizay in Morgon and we had a very extensive tasting there, then we had lunch at Domaines de Malone in Fleurie.

Most recently, in 2023 we went to Ch de Ravatys at Brouilly for a tour and tasting as part of our Viking river cruise from Avignon to Lyon.

What is most noticeable is the striking differences between the Beaujolais Crus. Working with the same grape variety, in the relatively small Beaujolais region the different Crus produce quite different wines.

I prefer the heavier more powerful wines from Morgon, Brouilly and Cotes du Brouilly. This might be an age thing, in that I perhaps now need to be bludgeoned as the wines I drank when younger from Fleurie, St Amour & Julienas are too subtle for me now.

Checking CT it seems I have only one Gamay, 2021 Château des Ravatys Cote de Brouilly, but since I didn't specify where I put it, I don't even know if I still have it. Must try & find it.
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Re: Wine Focus May 2025 - GaMay and Philip the Bold

by Mark Lipton » Sun May 04, 2025 3:08 pm

Jenise wrote:Is anyone producing Valdiguie in California anymore? I recall seeing some from the J Lohr brand, maybe as recently as ten years ago but not since, and a heavenly sparkling version under crown closure by the guy who makes Ultramarine sparkling wines. Admittedly I don't get around much, but these are best I can recall the only ones I've seen in my lifetime.


A few of new guard in CA make Valdiguie (and market it as such). I've had excellent examples from Broc, Folk Machine and Idlewild.
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Re: Wine Focus May 2025 - GaMay and Philip the Bold

by Mark Lipton » Sun May 04, 2025 3:15 pm

Great history lesson, Steve! As Steve well knows, we are big fans of Gamay Noir a jus blanc, to such an extent that I've planted a row of it at our house in Michigan, where it does seem to grow quite well. My favorite examples are still, naturally, from the Beaujolais, however.
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Re: Wine Focus May 2025 - GaMay and Philip the Bold

by Rahsaan » Sun May 04, 2025 3:30 pm

Peter May wrote:... This might be an age thing, in that I perhaps now need to be bludgeoned as the wines I drank when younger from Fleurie, St Amour & Julienas are too subtle for me now..


I don't know how your palate has developed, but the recent ripe vintages make rich and full wines from all the crus.
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