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WTN: Riesling, PN, and Bubbles at Wu's Wonton House

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Dale Williams

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WTN: Riesling, PN, and Bubbles at Wu's Wonton House

by Dale Williams » Wed Jun 25, 2025 10:12 am

Seven of our “Bordeaux” group and one fun substitute gathered at Wu’s Wonton King on a sweltering Monday. We started with some Champagne to go with the fried anchovies, jellyfish, and shrimp sashimi (followed by fried heads)
(additional disclaimer, while I never claim accuracy, this is likely worse than usual, as I didn’t take notes at the table. I let my phone get much lower than usual, and when I went to charge before going to train I got an emergency liquid detected alert. So I kept my phone off during dinner to save my meager charge for ride home. Apparently it’s a known glitch in the iPhone 16 that going in and out between hot/humid and AC can lead to this)
1995 Charles Heidsieck “Blanc de Millenaires”
Lovely showing, in a perfect place, with pear, pastry cream, and a chalky finish. Dosage is evident but balanced, with elegant mousse, nice acidic drive, and long finish. A-

2014 Vilmart Coeur de Cuvee
Bright, young, citrusy and chalky, lovely. B+

2002 Vilmart Grand Cellier d’Or
This is showing a bit of oxidation, but then it is 23 years old. Pear and hazelnut, a hint of rye bread, broad but not sloppy. It actually seemed to tighten/freshen up a bit when tried later. B+/B when first tasted, liked a bit more later, but not as good as last bottle

Then on to dry Riesling, red Burgs, and offdry Riesling to accompany lobster, Peking Duck, veal chops in black pepper, razor clams with black bean sauce, pea shoots, and green beans.

2002 Trimbach Cuvee Frederic Emile Riesling
I liked this more than most, though it showed a bit rounder than other recent bottles I have had. Dry peach, petrol, honied with peach blossoms and citrus zest. B+/B

1983 Trimbach Cuvee Frederic Emile Riesling
I liked this a lot more than others, to me a pretty classic showing, wet rocks and gingery spice, very good length. B+/A-

2021 Dr. Wehrheim Kastanienbusch Grosses Gewachs
New producer to me. Limeade and orange creamsicle with popping acids, tangy finish, I very much enjoyed. Too austere for some. B+

2006 Chandon de Briailles Iles de Vergelesses Pernand-Vergelesses 1er
Solid, red fruits and earthy notes, less open than I’d expect for a 2006. B

2006 Chevillon Les St. Georges Nuits St George 1er
This is all there but a bit tightly wrapped. Cassis and black cherry, earth, espresso flavors are all there, but a bit muted while the tannins and acids build a structural wall. B? With serious potential.

2005 Hudelot-Noellat Les Murgers Nuits St George 1er
Very Nuit-y, dark fruit with soil, grilled meat, coffee, there’s a good bit of tannin but it’s actually more open than the 2006s to my surprise. B+

I pivoted back to the off-dry Rieslings, but didn’t spend much time with them.
1983 Dr. Fischer Ockfener Bockstein Riesling Kabinett
OK this was weird. Amazingly pale color for 40+ year old Riesling. Barely any sweetness, light appley fruit. But there was something a little off- not classically corked, but something bacterial meets chemical (one person said moldy) that was odd. One person opined this is what happens when you dose a slightly dirty wine with a huge dose of sulphur. C+

2015 Donnhoff Niederhausen Hermannshohle Spatlese
I found this a little heavier than ideal, but it might have been a little warm (we were rotating whites in ice bucket). Ripe peach,Rainier cherry, honeysuckle, with long finish. I have one of these and will drink sooner than later. B+/B

2023 Donnhoff Niederhausen Hermannshohle Spatlese
While there’s plenty of richness here, there’s a good acid backbone. White nectarine, floral, very good length. B+

2012 Karthauserhof Eitelsbacher Karthäuserhofberg Spatlese
Another one I liked more than most. Not an Auslese posing as Spatlese, more floral than fruity, very nice profile, maybe not as long as its flightmates B

2013 Willi Schaefer Graacher Domprobst Riesling Spatlese
I didn’t note AP#, I know there are often 2. More tropical and softer than expected, but long and complex finish banishes any complaints. B+

So a good wine night if not a lot of stunners. Food was very good, service was friendly although we had a few amusing miscommunications. The one issue with Wu’s (and this is similar to Pings, PDH , etc) is the dishes fly out without any discernible order, so a little harder to flight wines. But a fun night, Dana was picking me up so I didn’t have to do a lot of spitting, and my phone was working fine after dinner.

Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent wine, B a good wine, C drinkable. Anything below C means I wouldn't drink at a party where it was only choice. Furthermore, I offer no promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of consistency.
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Rahsaan

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Re: WTN: Riesling, PN, and Bubbles at Wu's Wonton House

by Rahsaan » Wed Jun 25, 2025 11:59 am

Happy to be the substitute! And interesting to see reactions from different palates. I guess I don't often drink with people who have a wide range of preferences.

Dale Williams wrote:1995 Charles Heidsieck “Blanc de Millenaires”
Lovely showing, in a perfect place, with pear, pastry cream, and a chalky finish. Dosage is evident but balanced, with elegant mousse, nice acidic drive, and long finish. A-

2014 Vilmart Coeur de Cuvee
Bigh, young, citrusy and chalky, lovely. B+


I heard folks digging the Heidsieck but the 2014 Vilmart was by far my favorite of the Champagnes, so much more drive and focus, while also nicely evolved with age. Part of that is obviously my preference for bright citrusy Champagnes as opposed to the more aged flavors. But who knows if I got the best read on the Heidsieck. As you said, not the most clinical environment!

Dale Williams wrote:2002 Trimbach Cuvee Frederic Emile Riesling
I liked this more than most, though it showed a bit rounder than other recent bottles I have had. Dry peach, petrol, honied with peach blossoms and citrus zest. B+/B

1983 Trimbach Cuvee Frederic Emile Riesling
I liked this a lot more than others, to me a pretty classic showing, wet rocks and gingery spice, very good length. B+/A-


So folks didn't like either! I don't have a lot of CFE experience to debate different bottle showings, but I thought the 83 started out very nice and then eventually the 02 caught up with air to show better and better.

Dale Williams wrote:2021 Dr. Wehrheim Kastanienbusch Grosses Gewachs
Too austere for some. B+


Another one of those palate re-calibration moments, because Wehrheim is very friendly and generous wine to me! They are 'neighbors' with Rebholz and work many of the same vineyards, but because of different producer styles they make very different wines. I love Rebholz for the extra elegance, but it tends towards austere and needs age. Whereas I'm starting to buy more Wehrheim as something elegant but also accessible, with more body, and easier to drink young.

1983 Dr. Fischer Ockfener Bockstein Riesling Kabinett
OK this was weird....
2015 Donnhoff Niederhausen Hermannshohle Spatlese
I found this a little heavier than ideal...


I thought something was wrong with both of these bottles. I thought the Fischer was corked, but I guess it doesn't matter if the consensus was that it was not something to drink! The 15 Donnhoff also seemed suspiciously muted. But, wasn't the most clinical environment...

2023 Donnhoff Niederhausen Hermannshohle Spatlese
While there’s plenty of richness here, there’s a good acid backbone. White nectarine, floral, very good length. B+

2012 Karthauserhof Eitelsbacher Karthäuserhofberg Spatlese
Another one I liked more than most. Not an Auslese posing as Spatlese, more floral than fruity, very nice profile, maybe not as long as its flightmates B

2013 Willi Schaefer Graacher Domprobst Riesling Spatlese
I didn’t note AP#, I know there are often 2. More tropical and softer than expected, but long and complex finish banishes any complaints. B+


I don't drink much Spätlese these days but thought these probably didn't get the most advantageous circumstances coming at the end like that. The 23 NH was extremely young compared to the other two, so lots of re-calibration was required on that one for me. I liked the Karthauserhof (again, palate preferences) for the delicate elegance and thought it was showing better and better with air. But, it was the lightest of the three. My phone was working and now see that the Schaefer was #5. Lots of the earthy density I remember from that bottling, and I thought it was very good, fun to drink, although Schaefer has never been a personal favorite. But those are small nits to pick!

The Burgs were also good, coming in and out. I think the Chevillon may have had more sediment than would be ideal, but it had its moments. And I did get some good moments with the 05 Murgers when the sweet fruit poked out.

Thanks again!
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Re: WTN: Riesling, PN, and Bubbles at Wu's Wonton House

by Dale Williams » Wed Jun 25, 2025 1:18 pm

Well, it was loud enough that my definition of others was basically Paul and Chris, occasionally Gary.
I just found the Heidsieck at peak, while the Vilmart needs time.
I don't think I revisited the 02 CFE.
I didn't get cardboard TCA typicity with the 83 Kab. The closest I could come would be an 89 Vouvray demi-sec Envoyer sold with a weird aroma, best descriptor I heard was raw white button mushroom (not a flavor you want in a wine).
I liked the lightness of the Karthauserhof.
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Re: WTN: Riesling, PN, and Bubbles at Wu's Wonton House

by David M. Bueker » Wed Jun 25, 2025 2:36 pm

Ah 1983 - the year of dubious botrytis. It’s why I avoided buying the wines when I had a few chances, and why I always select something else when someone offers me one as a selection.
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Re: WTN: Riesling, PN, and Bubbles at Wu's Wonton House

by Jenise » Wed Jun 25, 2025 2:39 pm

2006 Chandon de Briailles Iles de Vergelesses Pernand-Vergelesses 1er
Solid, red fruits and earthy notes, less open than I’d expect for a 2006. B


I owned a case of this that we didn't start in on until around 2016. Light, think, high acid and low-or-no fruit and over the years since no happy bottles. I'm surprised to see a good report.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
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Re: WTN: Riesling, PN, and Bubbles at Wu's Wonton House

by Dale Williams » Thu Jun 26, 2025 12:59 pm

besides botrytis as I think you recently noted also a terrible time for corks in Germany. Maybe Rahsaan is correct and the TCA just showed a bit atypically to me.
Jenise, I just looked at CT and see your notes, most of which seem a bit more positive than that. The thing about Burgundy is that unlike Bordeaux I don't think closed down periods are as linear. Which can be frustrating. The only other CT note that is from someone on my Favorite Taster list (a friend of Salil's, and maybe David's) is from 2020 and pretty positive. In any case I did like the bottle Mon, if a bit tight.
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Re: WTN: Riesling, PN, and Bubbles at Wu's Wonton House

by Rahsaan » Thu Jun 26, 2025 2:46 pm

Dale Williams wrote:besides botrytis as I think you recently noted also a terrible time for corks in Germany. Maybe Rahsaan is correct and the TCA just showed a bit atypically to me..


Yes, it didn't seem like the most stereotypically aggressive TCA smells to me either. But something was clearly not right and I often ascribe the muted/stripped note to low-level TCA. Plus there was some sort of moldy note which might have become clearer TCA with more time/attention. Regardless, that bottle was not meant to please us.

Interesting convo on the 06 CdB IdV. I'm pretty sure I've had it over the years, but can't remember much. That was a tough vintage, although not sure about Pernand and the hail. The bottle on Monday was definitely on the light and structured side, compared to some of the more generous fruit-driven recent vintages. I'd be happy to taste more in the interest of study, but I don't have any!
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Re: WTN: Riesling, PN, and Bubbles at Wu's Wonton House

by David M. Bueker » Thu Jun 26, 2025 4:48 pm

Just looked, and the only 2006 CdB I have is the Corton Marechaudes. I bet that’s still chewy!
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Re: WTN: Riesling, PN, and Bubbles at Wu's Wonton House

by Jenise » Fri Jun 27, 2025 3:57 pm

Dale Williams wrote: Jenise, I just looked at CT and see your notes, most of which seem a bit more positive than that. The thing about Burgundy is that unlike Bordeaux I don't think closed down periods are as linear. Which can be frustrating. The only other CT note that is from someone on my Favorite Taster list (a friend of Salil's, and maybe David's) is from 2020 and pretty positive. In any case I did like the bottle Mon, if a bit tight.


So I went back and looked at my notes as well. Only three positive (or cautiously optimistic) notes out of seven, and none since 2017. What that record doesn't include is the other bottles in the case since, all disappointments, that I didn't even bother to write up.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov

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