How long to keep wine

Hi,

How does one approach the problem of learning to estimate how long a wine can be kept to improve it's flavour before it starts to go downhill? Label information seems generally to be extremely sketchy.

This causes me a number of problems. For example a while ago I acquired a bottle of 2001 Rioja which said on the label was suitable for ageing for around 2 years. I've yet to try it (I only have one bottle) but I have no idea whether this has been sold off by the retailer as past it's prime, being 2001 vintage, or whether I should attempt to keep it in the cellar for a bit longer.

I've now started to acquire wines by the case so I can check them as they age. The last three I picked up were:
* 2005 Caliza Tempranillo/Cabernet
* 2003 La Cuvee Mythique
* 2006 La Chasse du Pap Shiraz
All drinking nicely now (they're hardly expensive bottles, so I had to try ) but are any of them worth ageing? And how can I start to judge whether future purchases are for drinking now or keeping?

Cheers,
Matt

Matt,
Information on aging is always sketchy. One can consult wine literature, track records, others with experience or just about any other source and still miss by a mile. Cellaring wine is always a gamble. So if you like what you are tasting now, drink the wine now.
That said, some of the most sublime experiences I have had in wine were with aged wine. For me, that's enough to keep me trying.
I usualy consult all the sources I can; if something has been written about a certain syrah and it has been producing for a decade or more, surely someone will say something about what happens to the wine over time. Big time Bordeaux and Burgundy have volumes written about them and their longevity. Folks here have varied and eclectic palates and can give some insight into specific wines.
In addition, I taste the wine looking for balance, concentration and structure. Balance, although difficult to decribe, is easy to recognize. Its a harmony, where no element dominates another and nothing is too flabby or too tart. Concentration is the potency of the flavors; are the weak and insipid or are they strong and penetrating? Does the wine last in the mouth, that is, how long is it's finish? Structure has to do with the tannin and acid present in the wine. If the wine is drying out your mouth completely, chances are the wine is unbalanced. If the wine sears the mouth with acidity, chances are it is equally so.
But all of this is so much smoke and mirrors. And the only way you will ever truly learn is to try and fail. And try again.
Like most things in wine, you can't learn it in a semester or a year; it takes a lifetime and sometimes, even that isn't long enough.
We're all bozos on this bus and the guy who thinks is isn't is the biggest one.
Best, Jim

Wot Jim said. Plus...

How a bottle develops depends on how it has been stored. And even with the same storage conditions there will be bottle variation.

A lot of it is subjective anyway. Just because someone else says to drink a wine at a particular time doesn't mean you will like it best then.

Oh, and I would expect the "2 years" on your bottle meant 2 years after it left the producer. If it was a Crianza Rioja it would barely be released 2 years after the vintage beacuse of the regulations relating to the wine. And Reserva and Gran Reserva Riojas would be even older on release. I really do wish people would stop saying and writing "drink between 2 and 5 year" etc. It is not always clear from the context whether it is from the vintage, from release or from when the person was writing (whenever that might be). GIVE DRINKING WINDOWS CALENDAR YEAR NUMBERS - 2010-2013 or whatever. Please.

I really do wish people would stop saying and writing "drink between 2 and 5 year" etc. It is not always clear from the context whether it is from the vintage, from release or from when the person was writing (whenever that might be). GIVE DRINKING WINDOWS CALENDAR YEAR NUMBERS - 2010-2013 or whatever. Please.

Amen to that . . . a small change with inconsequential costs and significant benefits of eliminating confusion.

Yeah, those "drink after X years" or "drink between x and y years" projections leave you wondering whether that means after the vintage, after release or after the TNs were written. Critics know what they mean -- Parker says he means after the vintage -- and that's fine, but you generally have to be a detective to find that out.

And the people who should be the best ageing advisors are the winemakers as they know how their previous vintages fared, but cash flow problems being what they are most winemakers understandably prefer that most consumers -- who customarily plan to drink their wines a few days after purchase -- believe the winemakers' wines are going to drink just fine right now, whenever that is. So in the absence of accurate winemaker projections that means the critics have trouble making reasonably accurate projections unless they've tasted numerous vintages, each over many years, which usually isn't the case. And even then if you think the critics are pretty much in agreement just compare projections by, say the Wine Advocate and the Wine Spectator. They are often decades apart. And critics like Tanzer often don't mention ageing.

Anyhow, anyone who doesn't have a temperature controlled cellar or a passive one that stays about 55 degrees year round can forget about the projections. They don't apply.

We're all bozos on this bus and the guy who thinks is isn't is the biggest one.

I personally think of myself as more of a Clarabell, albeit a talking one.
Very sage advice, though.

We're all bozos on this bus and the guy who thinks is isn't is the biggest one.

I personally think of myself as more of a Clarabell, albeit a talking one.
Very sage advice, though.

But you need to remember to inflate your shoes before crossing the water.

Glenn

P.s. Anytime you drink wine and truly enjoy it was the right time to open that bottle.

We're all bozos on this bus and the guy who thinks is isn't is the biggest one.

You just quoted my personal credo, Jim, and one of my favorite Firesign Theatre quotes, along with "She's no fun, she fell right over."

Mark Lipton

Matt
I think the latter two are 'drink now' wines, but most well made wine will last 2-3 years.

How to work out cellaring time? Near impossible, but some things can give good hints:

Track record - Has this label got a history of ageing for 20+ years? If so, then unless vintage conditions were extreme, the winemaking has changed dramatically or the winemaker just bodged the job, then there's a fair chance the latest release will last well. This is where some of the experienced critics become useful, as they may have tasted a 1986 when young and note similarities with the 2004 at the same stage.

Acidity - If it tastes soft and sweet now, without refreshing acidity, then it's likely to become fat and cloying with age.

Tannins - Firm tannins (the bit that makes your mouth feel furry) in reds can be a good sign, but if the fruit is too weak, then it will fade before the tannins leaving an empty, dry fruitless shell. This is the gamble I like taking with Barolo from Piemonte in Italy

Alcohol - Mixed views on this and I think it very much depends on the wines style. Low alcohol German rieslings have a great track record of ageing, as do Hunter Semillons (the latter picked arguably before it's ripe). However other very high alcohol wines can age very well (I understand alcohol can act as a preservative).

Judging these and other aspects of a wines look, smell and taste are an avenue you may choose to pursue in time. If you're interested, grab a copy of Michael Broadbents Wine tasting or Schusters Essential Wine tasting, which are both excellent on the subject. For now though, concentrate more on whether the wine lights your fire or not - and if so what in particular made the difference. Was it refreshing, heady, bold, silky. Choose differentiators that are important to you.

If you're interested in cellaring wine, getting the right conditions is important, but there are perfectly adequate compromises to be made.
The things to avoid are
- Direct light / sunlight over a prolonged period
- Excessive heat
- Excessive temperature variation
- Excessive vibration
- Storage next to strong smells
- Excessively dry conditions

Now many of us make compromises on these, but if the area you store wine is in the kitchen next to the oven, then the wine may deteriorate very quickly. As a starting point, the cupboard under the stairs is pretty good and could serve you very well for a long time. Whilst it's not as ideal as a dark climate controlled cellar at 13C and 70% humidity, it's a hell of a lot cheaper allowing you to buy more wine.

I hope this is of use

regards

Ian

We're all bozos on this bus and the guy who thinks is isn't is the biggest one.

I personally think of myself as more of a Clarabell, albeit a talking one.
Very sage advice, though.

Dale, somehow I always figured you as a Claretbell.

Hi,

How does one approach the problem of learning to estimate how long a wine can be kept to improve it's flavour before it starts to go downhill? Label information seems generally to be extremely sketchy.

This causes me a number of problems. For example a while ago I acquired a bottle of 2001 Rioja which said on the label was suitable for ageing for around 2 years. I've yet to try it (I only have one bottle) but I have no idea whether this has been sold off by the retailer as past it's prime, being 2001 vintage, or whether I should attempt to keep it in the cellar for a bit longer.

I've now started to acquire wines by the case so I can check them as they age. The last three I picked up were:
* 2005 Caliza Tempranillo/Cabernet
* 2003 La Cuvee Mythique
* 2006 La Chasse du Pap Shiraz
All drinking nicely now (they're hardly expensive bottles, so I had to try ) but are any of them worth ageing? And how can I start to judge whether future purchases are for drinking now or keeping?

Cheers,
Matt

Matt, Fla Jim has given you a lot of exactly correct information, but he could have written a book and not touched all the bases. given that, I would like to know what 2001 Rioja you have, and what is it's quality level. Joven, Crianza, Reserva, or Gran Reserva. All of these will age differently. If you got the wine for sub $10 it is meant to drink up within a year or two of it's release. A crianza will go a bit longer say up to 5 years with the higher wines going longer. 2001 in Rioja was a pretty good year so judge accordingly depending on your wine.

Hi Matt,

Great question. I find the question of how long to age a wine probably the most difficult question to answer. You have already received much sage advice. But you have given what I consider to be one indicator. How is the wine drinking now? Its always a good idea to buy two bottles of wine you think may need to age. If a wine is drinking well when you buy it it may not need much aging although that is debatable (especially for rieslings, in my opinion). If a wine is not drinking well at release and seems to have potential but shuts down on you, it probably needs to age. How long? is the big question. Most wine lovers and experts will tell you that most wine changes the most in the first 5 years of cellaring. It continues to change after that but usually more gradually. And remember, as Robin says, about 90% of all wines are made to be drunk now (within the first 2 years).

given that, I would like to know what 2001 Rioja you have, and what is it's quality level.

It's a Lagunilla Reserva. Bought at £4.99 discounted from a usual £9.99 although I'm well aware those sorts of special offers are often not all they're cracked up to be. This was before I started buying cases so I've only got the one bottle, but I'm very fond of Rioja so I shall be annoyed with myself if it turns out to be particularly good

If you're interested in cellaring wine, getting the right conditions is important, but there are perfectly adequate compromises to be made.

Amazingly enough I do actually have a small cellar under the house which meets most of the requirements. Annoyingly, just as I've started to become more interested in wine I'm about to move house to to a place where I'm going to have to keep the wine in an old outdoor coal bunker.

Matt, I googled on the name of this wine, and found a couple interesting pages. I am a bit confused though in that one page gives that the wine is from the grenache grape and the other says it is tempranillo. The first link below in the one that says grenache, and the second is probably the better of the two pages. Unless you read Spanish you will need to go down about the middle of the page for the English translation. I haver never seen this wine but at 10 Eur it seems a decent buy. If you see the Marquis de Riscal Reserva at 10 or less I highly recommend the 2001 or the 2002 vintages, but not the 2000.

http://www.everywine.co.uk/every-wine/15501-2001-bodegas-lagunilla-reserva-rioja.html

http://www.noticiasderioja.com/2003/0410011.html

I'm going to have to keep the wine in an old outdoor coal bunker.

You mean one of those concrete box constructions with a wooden lid? If so, don't. That's just about the worst place you could imagine.

You want somewhere with a constant temp, and are more likely to find it indoors. The understairs cupboard is a good choice. Another cunning option is on the floor behind the kick boards under kitchen cabinets (but not close to the cooker of course).