Bargains or ?

I have not had a lot of experience with wines, so was wondering if some wines I picked up in a closeout bin at a local store this week were worth getting, and should I go back to clean them out? First is:

1997 Moletto Cabernet Franc from Italy, @ $11.39 a bottle. Opened one that night, and enjoyed it, especially after it had been uncorked for an hour or so - the flavors seemed to intensify. Only had 2 bottles though, and I got them both.

1997 Hidden Cellars Mendocino Heritage Eagle Point Ranch Petite Sirah (Wow, what a mouthful!) @ $14.00. Only bought one at that price (I'm on a budget), but the store had several more. Worth going back for? Keep it in the closet a while, or drink now? (I am still learning this game).

2000 Tohu Chardonnay, Gisborne, NZ, @ $8.00. Again, I only bought one, but they had more.

Lastly, a 2004 Bulletin Place Chardonnay (S.E. Australia) @ $6.50.

If nothing else, it'll be fun drinking them, to see what they are like.

Robert
Well one of them is a bargain - in the sense that you enjoyed the bottle you've tasted already! There's no better guide to a bargain that your own enjoyment.

Don't expect too much when you see S.E Australia on a label. This usually means it's 100% from the vast irrigated areas and hence bargain basement. 2004 is probably getting on a bit, so crack the bottle sometime this year.

The Tohu is getting on a bit, and although a drink young style, might be hanging in ok. It's a cheap way to have a look at an aged chardonnay.

There's a few general points I'll add as well:

- People often assume all wine improves with age. Most supermarket level wines don't and are ready to drink as they hit the shelves. There are exceptions and also other (even some very cheap) wines that do benefit from ageing

- Conversely we often talk of 'drinking windows' for wines, which give some broad indication of where a wine might be at it's peak. In my opinion, very few wines fall away dramatically after they've peaked. You lose a little freshness and gain other aged characters. At some point the benefits of further ageing are outweighed by the penalties.

- Following on from the last point, our tastes vary quite a lot. I quite like old wines and can even get enjoyment from wines that are way past what I'd call peak. Even badly oxidised wines might offer something of interest to taste, if not to drink. Others prefer freshness and strong primary fruit flavours. Even more complicated, is that our preferences can vary by wine. The old cliche of no right or wrong holds up pretty well.

I hope you enjoy the wines

regards

Ian

Welcome to the Forum, Robert!

Most wines are made to be consumed fairly soon after making. Although I have not had any of these wines, I would think that most of these should be ready to drink now (hopefully not over the hill) and probably not really cellar worthy. Although you could put one of each aside and use it for comparison later on. That could be very instructive.

The only way to tell whether they were a "good deal" and whether or not you should buy more of them is to drink them. If you like them, then they were worth getting!

[Jenise]

Robert, some comments. Good call on the Moletto: don't know the producer myself (there are only like 1,000,000 wine labels in Italy), but 97 was a good vintage in Italy and Cab Franc is a grape you can usually trust to age well. That the flavors intensified with air time is a good thing, and normal with well-made aged wines. They have to kind of wake up.

Don't know Hidden Cellars, but Eagle Point Ranch is a good grower and Mendocino's a good cool climate growing area. I'd have taken that chance. Petite Sirah's a really robust, long-lived grape and that wine is probably only just now getting ready to drink. I'll see if I can find out more for you on that one.

Tohu--reasonably good producer, but pretty old for a chard. Still, as Ian says, could be interesting.

Bulletin Place--low end mass market wine. What Ian said.

[Jenise]

Robert, didn't find many TNs on Hidden Cellars, but it's mentioned often on the internet in connection with the Petite Sirah grape as a respected producer. I found this one note on a '95, which should give you a good idea about what you have there:

Hidden Cellars currently markets two Petite Sirahs. Less massive is the 1996 Hidden Cellars Petite Sirah bearing a Mendocino appellation, which is quite fragrant with peppery blackberry, black cherry, bittersweet chocolate and vanilla scents, tinged with a dried herb note, and juicy and mouthfilling on the palate with medium-full tannins. It was blended with 12 percent Carignane and 2 percent Zinfandel. The 1995 Hidden Cellars "Mendocino Heritage" Petite Sirah, Eaglepoint Ranch, Mendocino ($25), which I tasted separately from the Vintners Club tasting, is made from 100 percent durif and offers intense, complex aromas of wild blackberries, dark plums and freshly cracked black pepper. Dense, chewy and tannic, this full-bodied giant replicates the flavors suggested by the nose, with the addition of smoked meat notes and sweet, toasty oak. This full-throttle wine and the Turley Hayne Vineyard Petite, discussed above, are soulmates.

Hm. The Chardonnays I have some thoughts on.

The Tohu, who knows if it's still good. I wouldn't be surprised if I would like something like that, but I do like funky and/or oxydized whites. I'd say open the one you have right away and decide if you should buy more.

The Bulletin Place is definitely mass-produced wine, but decent for what it is. We've carried it in the che - er, I mean, inexpensive bin before. $6.50 is a markdown, but not anything like crazy cheap. Again, buy, drink, decide.

I'd encourage you to go crazy and spend about $15 on a nice Macon (inexpensive White Burgundy) to use as a benchmark when judging low-end Chardonnays. I imagine there's a good wine shop somewhere in Tulsa where someone could help you find a good one ...

Dave

Tulsa's flush with wine shops, unfortunately most of them are mighty proud of their wares, judging from the prices!

Tulsa's flush with wine shops, unfortunately most of them are mighty proud of their wares, judging from the prices!

Did you get those at the closeout bin at a wine shop? It's true that most wine shops are going to have mainly wine that's more expensive than you can afford, but any shop that's decent (in my mind anyway) will have a selection of really nice wine in the $10 to $20 range, and maybe a few under $10 too. If they only have expensive stuff, it's not the right place for you right now. Keep looking. The right place is probably around somewhere.

Assuming you got those bottles at a wine shop, try asking someone there about them and judge the response. If you get a brushoff or a generic "that's real nice stuff," forget them. If the response is from someone who's really passionate about wine, talk to them! See if you can find someone you're comfortable talking to. That's really a key to getting started in the wine game. Someone good at a wine shop is a tremendous resource. Of course there's everyone here too, and we love to help, but it's hard to give advice from a distance. It's much easier for the guy who's right there to figure out what you like and what you can afford and match those up with what's right in the store.

If any of those wine shops give tastings, go to them. If they're free, make yourself a regular! You'll be exposed to a lot of wine, which is a good education, and you'll get to taste before you buy too. It's way better than taking potshots in the closeout bin ...

Dave

2000 Tohu Chardonnay, Gisborne, NZ, @ $8.00.

Well I decided to open the Tohu this evening. That in itself was an adventure, since the cork broke off, leaving a crumbly nub sliding down towards the wine in the bottle!

Employing a handy icepick, I managed to coax most of the remains out of the neck, and strained the remaining bits through a coffee filter. I was pleased that it turned out to be quite drinkable, because the cork was so crumbly, I was worried that it had allowed too much oxidation to set in.

First sip was tart and tangy, with some tannins and general oakiness. Not a lot of nose, but some peach undertones. Nice finish, but not real long. Not bad for a bargain bin purchase. I may drop in tomorrow to see if any are left.

Is going down well with herbed salmon, fresh sweet corn and new redskin potatoes.

[quote="Robert R."]2000 Tohu Chardonnay, Gisborne, NZ, @ $8.00.


Employing a handy icepick, I managed to coax most of the remains out of the neck, and strained the remaining bits through a coffee filter. I was pleased that it turned out to be quite drinkable, because the cork was so crumbly, I was worried that it had allowed too much oxidation to set in. /quote]

Robert, I highly recommend you get yourself an Ah-So cork puller just for these situations. soft broken cork will come out if you use it right.

Well I decided to open the Tohu this evening. That in itself was an adventure, since the cork broke off, leaving a crumbly nub sliding down towards the wine in the bottle!

Employing a handy icepick, I managed to coax most of the remains out of the neck, and strained the remaining bits through a coffee filter. I was pleased that it turned out to be quite drinkable, because the cork was so crumbly, I was worried that it had allowed too much oxidation to set in.

Generally the condition of the cork is usually not a good indication of the condition of the wine. You have witnessed the example where you have a disintegrating cork, but a good wine. There are also many examples of a good strong cork, but a lousy wine.

Tohu is a good New Zealand producer. The wines I've had from them have always been good.
btw, Tohu is owned by the Maori (the indigenous population of NZ).

Eaglepoint Ranch is a superb vineyard and yields superb Petite Sirah. I would have no qualms buying as much of the Hidden Cellars as you want. PS ages extremely well, so even though it is a 1997, chances are it will last a few more years.

[Jenise]

2000 Tohu Chardonnay, Gisborne, NZ, @ $8.00.


Employing a handy icepick, I managed to coax most of the remains out of the neck, and strained the remaining bits through a coffee filter. I was pleased that it turned out to be quite drinkable, because the cork was so crumbly, I was worried that it had allowed too much oxidation to set in. /quote]

Robert, I highly recommend you get yourself an Ah-So cork puller just for these situations. soft broken cork will come out if you use it right.

Good suggestion, Bob. Also, from the How did I ever live without it? Department, I would recommend a Nuance wine filter/pourer. I bought one in Denmark in March and it's been in perpetual use ever since.

I saw the Hidden Cellars in the wine fridge tonight, and decided to finally open it. WOW! It went well with the ground sirloin burgers and steak fries. This is the best red I've had in months, and it went well with the burger.

Very dark, almost black color. Lots of black fruit, some tannins but not overwhelming. Big cherry-dark chocolate nose, delicious wine! I wish now I had bought the other bottles out of that bargain bin. Well worth the $14.

From my limited experience, Eagle Point Ranch is a major sweet spot for Petit Sirah (and Zinfandel)

You can bet I'll be looking for more Eagle Point Ranch stuff. Memo's as good as made in the Blackberry.

[Jenise]

You can bet I'll be looking for more Eagle Point Ranch stuff. Memo's as good as made in the Blackberry.

Eagle Point Ranch sells fruit to a variety of producers. For instance, Copain makes (or made in 2001, at any rate) some syrahs from Eagle Point Ranch. Haven't tasted the wine but I have two bottles. Should get into those soon.