Open Mike: Tempranillo.

There is a very interesting Tempranillo thread going as we all know with quite a few diverging opinions!! So Tom N and I are game to go with a new Open Mike. Not quite sure which wine to start of with however (its never that easy eh!) so hope Joe or Victor can point us in the right direction (hint hint).
If anyone else wants to chip in go ahead!!

Right here on the kitchen table, I have Muga, Riscal, Arrocal, Montecillo. So thats 3 from Rioja and one from RdDuero. Probably not a great list for some I guess?!

Muga, Riscal and Montecillo are good places to start, Bob!

Which bottles?

Best,
Joe

Muga, Riscal and Montecillo are good places to start, Bob!

Which bottles?

Best,
Joe

Riscal and Montecillo, both `01.
Muga `00.

Rock on, you will dig all of those wines. Are they all Reserva?

Best,
Joe

Yes Joe, two available here. The Muga came over from the UK via a friend.I have already posted some notes on the Riscal a while back.

WTN: `01 Marques de Riscal Reserva, Rioja.

Opened 4 hrs and then decanted, lots of swirling. 13.5% alc, good cork but tough to pull! No sediment noted.

Colour. Medium (red) ruby w. thin watery strawbeery rim. Centre is an intense but not opaque centre. Some viscousty here, no sign of age.

Nose. Oak, vanilla, cherry, cinnamon. Blackberry and some mocha after 24 hrs.

Palate. Initial mouthfeel entry on first day is lead pencil, sour cherry, herbal and earthy. Not ripe to me and tannins intensify over time. Dryish finish with white pepper, some licorice and cinnamon. Needs some more time in cellar to knit together but this is old style rioja.
After 24 hrs, tad stemmy(?), cigar box hints and too tannic as I pull from fridge. Found the sour cherry others have noted, will buy more and cellar.
Cost was around $25 Cdn I think.

Food, studded garlic leg of lamb with root veg batons. Meal enhanced by `94 Pink Floyd special on PBS.

(Edit, this TN was posted Dec `06). I have another bottle ready to go!! So, in relation to the other thread ref. tempranillo, I guess nothing here really signposts this grape varietal...or does it?!!

This is well timed as I had a couple of Tempranillos on Wednesday night as part of a France, Italy, Spain tasting .....

Vina Vilano Roble 2005 - Ribera del Duero, Spain
Deep dark crimson-edged, purple red, youthful and bright with a smoky, sweet berry fruit aroma and a spicy palate which has soft ripe tannins, juicy red and black fruit, a touch of tobacco and tar, and a gutsy, full-bodied finish. Clean, well made and tasty, this is 100% Tempranillo with little influence from the 6 months in American oak. 13.5% alc. Cork closure. NZ$18.99.

Condado de Haza 2004 - Ribera del Duero, Spain
Deep black red with blackberry hues. Fragrant, full-on aromas of spice, cassis, biscuity oak and subtle coconut. Full-bodied, powerful, block-buster flavours crammed with blueberries and bright red fruits, spice, liquorice, tar, nutmeg, dried herbs, sweet vanillin oak, a touch of graphite, smoky charcoal and grippy velvety tannins. Juicy and delicious, a step up on all the previous wines both in taste and price - but its brilliant! 100% Tempranillo with 15 months in American oak. 14% alc. Cork closure. NZ$34.99.

Great, so in relation to the other thread, Sue what jumped out and said "this is Tempranillo?".

Great, so in relation to the other thread, Sue what jumped out and said "this is Tempranillo?".

These wines didn't necessarily jump out as Tempranillo, but in the context of the tasting - France, Italy, Spain - they jumped out as Spanish because of the sweet oak - quite flamboyantly American with its coconut connotations in the case of the Condado de Haza - the tarry savoury undercurrent, the gutsy delivery, the sweet spices and the overall juiciness. I didn't pick up any orange zest on the finish, as I used to in the old style Rioja's, but these are not from Rioja and not are they old style.

Looking forward to some more tasting notes and and thoughts like this in our deliberations! Its 30 degrees outside but think I will open one this weekend. Pure research of course (wink wink).

I guess we are not restricted to just Temps from Rioja so am looking at the Vinaguarena from Toro as well as the Alvear `02 Palacio Quemado Crianza from the Ribera del Guadiana.

Bob's Rioja wines are blends - Muga Crianza has just 70% tempranillo in it. Sue's Ribera del Duero wines are 100% tempranillo varietals, and it's interesting that the main aromatic component she can find is "sweet oak"...

I'll re-state what I wrote in another thread: tempranillo does have its own aromatic components quite aside from the 'tertiary' elements brought by long aging in cask and bottle, from red and dark berries to a tobacco leaf character. But it's not an 'aromatic' grape variety in the terms that aromatic varieties are described in wine parlance, i.e. grapes with strong 'primary' fruit aromas already at the stage of must. Gewürztraminer and muscat are the obvious white examples; among red ones, many varieties (pinot noir, gamay, syrah, touriga nacional, nebbiolo, cornalin, lagrein...) have much stronger aromatic features than tempranillo.

Bob's Rioja wines are blends - Muga Crianza has just 70% tempranillo in it. Sue's Ribera del Duero wines are 100% tempranillo varietals, and it's interesting that the main aromatic component she can find is "sweet oak"...

Victor, Look at my full tasting notes 5 posts above and you'll find that I didn't actually mention "sweet oak" as an aromatic descriptor. I used the words "sweet oak" in reply to Bob, because in the context of the tasting of French, Italian and Spanish wines, it was the "sweet oak" component that made the wines stand out as Spanish.
Cheers,
Sue

Agreed. But the generic fruit and other components you described (which are indeed part of the tempranillo aromatic palette) weren't precise enough for you to ascertain the wines' "tempranillo typicity", and you fell back on the oak to determine they could be Spanish wines and hence there was a significant chance they'd come from tempranillo... Which is about what happens with many tempranillos: revealed by outside components, not so much by their own aromas. To me, however, the mouthfeel and flavors are more telltale than the aromas in the case of temnpranillo.

Gewürztraminer and muscat are the obvious white examples; among red ones, many varieties (pinot noir, gamay, syrah, touriga nacional, nebbiolo, cornalin, lagrein...) have much stronger aromatic features than tempranillo.

It is interesting that there aren't more fully aromatic varieties with red wines; is that due to the fact that they are fermented with their skins, I wonder?

In Italy there are some minor black grapes that are considered aromatic: Lacrima di Morro d'Alba, Ruché for example. I just had my first pure Frappato, and that would certainly qualify.

Agreed. But the generic fruit and other components you described (which are indeed part of the tempranillo aromatic palette) weren't precise enough for you to ascertain the wines' "tempranillo typicity", and you fell back on the oak to determine they could be Spanish wines and hence there was a significant chance they'd come from tempranillo... Which is about what happens with many tempranillos: revealed by outside components, not so much by their own aromas. To me, however, the mouthfeel and flavors are more telltale than the aromas in the case of temnpranillo.

Ah, I'm on your wavelength now. Yes, totally agree. Many of the Spanish wines that I now get to taste are 'blends'. In fact most of the others I tasted that night were blends where tempranillo played a minor role. I'm not sure I would want to say '100% tempranillo' on any of the wines I tasted, not that I tried to on the night. I don't taste enough 100% tempranillos to know. Maybe I could pick the Condado de Haza (and similarly Pesquera) but probably because of the winemakers style.

OK so the next question is which wines do we consider tasting if we want the (close to) 100% Tempranillo varietal? If we go to Toro, or over the border to Portugal, I would think there are other considerations including that dreaded word "terroir". I think we all need to be aware that , as Victor says, we are dealing with a lot of blended styles here.

[David M. Bueker]

Ripe berry, dusty earth & integrated wood and leather notes. Mature but still showing sufficient fruit, this is drinking well right now.

BODEGAS Y VIÑEDOS ALION – Ribera del Duero DO- 1995

I believe that this wine is 100% Tempranillo and matured for up to 18 months in barriques of 100% new French oak.

C: Dense (I could not see through the decanter) with chocolate tinted foam on pouring and only the slightest bricking at the rim. N: A well developed and complex sweet and sour bouquet with the most prominent aromatic notes being sour cherry and vanilla with some plum and strawberry in the background and kirsch coming up with more air. P: Richly complex, velvety and harmonious with kirsch notes, a long sweet and sour (even gently bitter) finish with only slight hints of vanilla and gentle tannic structure fully resolved. There were no disfiguring malt, coconut or caramel notes.

A lovely wine but perhaps without quite the breed and elegance of my best Rioja experiences and with probably too much vanilla for licensed Quercophobes. I would say drink now if I did not know that good Tempranillo based wines can go on and on.

Did this shout Tempranillo at me? Well, if blind I think that I would have identified the wine as Spanish and Tempranillo based, viz. the sweet and sour and vanilla aromatic elements. However, without experience of young unwooded Tempranillo, I am unable to join the polemic on whether these notes are innate or acquired.

OK, My turn.

And now for something completely new (at least for me).

Nice deep garnet color.

Nose of cherries, light cassis, and sweet oak with a hint of vanilla.

Sweet red fruit (especially strawberry and raspberry) on the midpalate with nice acidity running down the sides of my tongue and good balance. A medium long finish of acidic red fruit with a flourish of sweet oak at the end.

With food:

Not good with my grilled burger as the wine acquired a sour tannic bite to it as an after taste. This is probably due to my habit of putting copious quantities of sweet pickle relish on my burger. Not a good mix.

Really nice match with the grilled portabello mushroom. This enhanced the sweet fruit of the wine.

Also good match with the cauliflower/broccoli/sunflower seed salad (dressing was a wine vinegar/mayonaise mix). The nuttiness of the seeds brought out the sour cherry taste in the wine.

Wine: 2001 Gran Fontal Reserva Seleccion, DO La Mancha, by Bodegas Fontana. 12 months American oak, 12 months bottle aging before release. 13.5 % abv. 85% tempranillo, 15% cabernet sauvignon. This was my first tempranillo (and wine, for that matter) from La Mancha. $19.75 $CAN.

Note: Given the controversy (on just how fragrant tempranillo really is ) stirred up by my previous post, I paid particular attention to the nose of this wine. The cherry fruit was definitely front and center with the cassis behind and then the sweet oak at the end. But with only 15% cab in this wine, the fact that I could pick out cassis definitely suggests ( not proves as this is only one wine) that cab has stronger fragrant qualities than tempranillo.

Needless to say, I can not really put my finger on anything in this wine that identifies it as tempranillo, since I have not developed that signature profile in my tasting experience yet. However, strawberries do seem to be one taste I find quite often, but not all the time, in tempranillos.

If I may be so bold as to list/sum up here some of the aroma nuances listed here so far, we have.......................................>

Cherry, sweet oak, cassis very much to the forefront (yup, remember some were blends).
Other comments include vanilla, cinnamom, blackberry, sweet berry, spice, coconut, kirsch, sour (cherry), vanilla.

Pretty good so far!! Have I missed anything?!!

BTW interesting to read about Tim`s Alion. Whats the price there these days for the newer releases?

Re: Alion's price

Having greatly enjoyed this bottle of 1995, I was asking myself the same question. On the bottle was an old price sticker indicating 1030 Belgian francs (roughly 25 EUR).

I did a rapid Google and for the 2002 vintage came up with
- 31 EUR at El Corte Inglés (the Spanish store chain)
- 51,35 EUR at Lavinia

Wine searcher shows a spread for 2000 and 2001 from US$ 46 to 65.

If it is going to resemble the 1995 (or the 1994), I think the young Alion would be worth buying at the El Corte Inglés price but not at Lavinia's. I guess that a wait till the earliest 2010 would be necessary for the oak to integrate to my taste.

BTW I am marking down an El Corte Inglés branch for a visit on my next excursion to Spain - approx 145 different Riojas on offer.

51,35 EUR at Lavinia.

I did a double take when I saw this price! Then I realized - you had looked up the price on Lavinia's French web site. In Lavinia Spain, it's 30.95 euros - cheaper than Corte Inglés. BTW, the price discrepancy is totally anomalous and unjustified in my book. I mean, Value Added Tax is 20.6% in France and 16% in Spain, but otherwise the prices should be almost identical...

Tim and others, is anyone using the Riedel glass when tasting etc? I am wondering if this is going to make a big difference to the aroma?

I'll re-state what I wrote in another thread: tempranillo does have its own aromatic components quite aside from the 'tertiary' elements brought by long aging in cask and bottle, from red and dark berries to a tobacco leaf character. But it's not an 'aromatic' grape variety in the terms that aromatic varieties are described in wine parlance, i.e. grapes with strong 'primary' fruit aromas already at the stage of must. Gewürztraminer and muscat are the obvious white examples; among red ones, many varieties (pinot noir, gamay, syrah, touriga nacional, nebbiolo, cornalin, lagrein...) have much stronger aromatic features than tempranillo.

Victor,
I appreciate your comments on Spanish wines, particularly tmpranillo. I stopped buying Rioja wines 10 years ago because every one I picked up seemed to have too much oak. Recently I have been drinking more Spanish wines and have been very impressed. Gone is the dominate oak, and I certainly have not found it in the nose, only as an integrated part of the palate. I have worked on trying to recognize the grape and find it feminine, berry and sometimes a dusty note under the fruit. Have to admit to only drinking older wines, 6-10 years, not a wide sampling and mostly Monticello and Heredia Lopez. Lots of work to do to understand this area but enjoy them because they are not huge 15% wines and they go well with food.
Watl