Advice on Learning Riesling?

Hello all! First, I'm new to the forum and I feel fortunate to have found such a comprehensive wine site; I look forward to reading from and interacting with you all

A little background: I recently started taking a focused interest in wine, with Riesling being the varietal I have had easiest access to because of a friend that brought cases of the stuff back from Germany. I'm determined to try as much Riesling as I can get my hands on and learn about it as well; then, perhaps move on to another varietal. I imagine I have a pretty solid understanding of the German Rieslings, with respect to the hierarchy of sweetness and so on (kabinett, spatlese, auslese, etc).

Before I ask my actual question, should someone this "new" to the wine tasting world even be concerned with knowing the difference between auslese and spatlese, trocken and halbtrocken, considering how unexperienced I am?

If so, I wonder: With what I have remaining (there is no more in our stash), how would any of you recommend I go about tasting these wines to try and get a real feeling of how they vary? I have:

2000 Jahrgangs-Sekt Trocken (Bernard-Massard)

2002 Alfred Eigelshoven Halbtrocken (Briedeler-Weiserberg)

2001 Peter Jos. Hauth Auslese (Bernkasteler-Badstube)

2002 Weingut-Peter Kropf Spatlese (Bernkastel-Kueser Rosenberg)

2000 Alfred Eigelshoven Hochgewachs (Briedeler-Weiserberg)

2000 Mosel Bacchus (looks generic; was bottled for a wedding)

My main thing is that I will likely never, ever have this variety of Rieslings in my possession at once--much less from these vineyards, so I would like to try and take advantage of this opportunity. I know of at least one "Riesling guy" around here, so any help would be greatly appreciated

NOTE: I've had all of these before, just never made a special effort to discern; not sure if that was clear

Welcome, A.B.! This is a fantastic Forum with friendly and knowledgeable people. (Not that individuals are necessarily friendly and knowledgeable on the same day! )

NM/KY? Hmmmm.

A.B. welcome! The riesling guys will be here soon, nasty bunch too!! Nagh, they will have all the answers you need.
Some of us are seriously looking at Austria these days, superb wines there. Myself, I am a Mosel man who really likes to cellar.

Myself, I am a Mosel man who really likes to cellar.

Bob, I love it when you talk like that!

Well, thank you for the warm welcomes Yes, Bob, I assumed this would be the place to ask such a question and have an experienced taster give a complete rookie some insight, minus the "3rd degree." And, yes, Cynthia--I'm stationed at an Air Force base in NM, while being a native of Louisville, KY. I see you, too, are in/from NM--wonderful state here, just not enough to hold my interest for 5+ years! Definitely ready to hop the Mississippi one last time

You just have to get up north where the pretty places and interesting people are!


Edited to add that our Wine Lovers Page Talkshoe (live podcast) this coming Saturday will be all about German wines. You should check it out!

There is a thread running in this Forum and notices and past topics in the TalkShoe Forum on the main Forum page when you log in. It's excellent!

I'll add my welcome, A.B., and suggest you tune in for Saturday's Talkshoe broadcast. David Bueker, a resident expert on German wines, will be on to answer questions and talk about the wines in general. It's easy and fun to call in, and full instructions can be found under the "WLP Weekly Talkshoe" sub-forum. It'll be a great place to get some specific questions answered in real time.

[James Roscoe]

I'll add my welcome A.B. and second Mike's advice. There are few people who know their way around German wines like David B.

Yeah, I saw the post for the TalkShoe about Riesling--but, I'll be on vacation all next week and do plan on downloading the show to listen to afterwards. You guys have been great so far, though--thanks again!

I'm determined to try as much Riesling as I can get my hands on and learn about it as well....should someone this "new" to the wine tasting world even be concerned with knowing the difference between auslese and spatlese, trocken and halbtrocken, considering how unexperienced I am?

I would say yes, otherwise it will be hard to make sense of what you are tasting. You can look this up in more detail on the web, Wikipedia or Oxford Companion to Wine (the best). But briefly, the Kabinett-Spatlese-Auslese-Beerenauslese progression refers to how late and ripe the grapes are picked. Most GERMAN Riesling is finished semi-sweet (not true for Austrian or Alsatian Riesling). However, trocken and halbtrocken indicate that it is actually dry or off-dry. The rest of the name will tell you the village, vineyard (sometimes) and producer. So...if you compare one producer or vineyard's Kabinett Riesling to different producer/vineyard in the same vintage, you are getting a real "apples-to-apples" comparison. If you are comparing a different vintage, sweet Auslese vs. Spatlese trocken, the wines may be radically different even from the same producer and vineyard.

How to...get a real feeling of how they vary?

2000 Jahrgangs-Sekt Trocken (Bernard-Massard)
2002 Alfred Eigelshoven Halbtrocken (Briedeler-Weiserberg)
2001 Peter Jos. Hauth Auslese (Bernkasteler-Badstube)
2002 Weingut-Peter Kropf Spatlese (Bernkastel-Kueser Rosenberg)
2000 Alfred Eigelshoven Hochgewachs (Briedeler-Weiserberg)
2000 Mosel Bacchus (looks generic; was bottled for a wedding)

If recommend popping open two bottles and tasting them side-by-side just before dinner, then tasting them each with food. Notice what is different about the wines (Auslese vs. Spatlese; Mosel vs. Rheingau; Trocken vs. Halbtrocken, etc.) and the resulting flavors. Don't worry about having to finish them, young and middle-aged Riesling holds up fine for a few days or even a week in the fridge. You can come back to them and see how they change with air.

...I will likely never, ever have this variety of Rieslings in my possession at once--much less from these vineyards, so I would like to try and take advantage of this opportunity.

Why? Except for a few producers and late harvest styles, Riesling isn't that expensive? If you become a fan, you might find yourself putting more than a few bottles away...

Outstanding, CM--thank you for your input. I had been thinking that I should do as you recommended and try a bit of each in succession, and likely will proceed in that direction.

My concerns regarding having this type of selection on hand again was (mostly) my attempt at being grateful for what I have now and not take it for granted--I would like to think that one day I will be so fortunate as to have such choices at my finger tips as I do now

If anyone else has advice/input/recommendations/warnings (goodness, I hope not) then please, I'm all ears (or, eyes)!

A. B. may I add my welcome to this helpful and friendly place. Riesling is a great place to start a life of wine appreciation because it is easy to like, is very food friendly and comes in a wide range of styles. Browse through the posts here, especially those by David M. Buecker, who is one of our resident German wine gurus. You will also find some very nice Rieslings made in WA, MI, NY, Ontario and from what I understand, Australia (I don't recall ever having one from OZ). Some people in their wine evolution start with Riesling and move on to other wines, going through phases and forget the Riesling, dismissing it as their palates "evolve" to "more complex" wines. Don't do this. Expand your horizons, but keep Riesling in your life. It's a great grape.

[David M. Bueker]

A. B. - looks like an interesting mix of wines. One quick note before I get down to specifics - the last wine on your list is not a Riesling. Bacchus is a different grape, and the product of a wave of experimentation with crossing that also yielded Scheurebe, Rieslaner, Albalonga and Kerner to name a few.

All that said, I would start in on many of these wines very soon. The Sekt should be ready to go. Have it outside on the porch/patio on a warm afternoon. Most Sekt is not all that impressive (there's a few but they are hard to find), but does make a lovely summer quaff.

The Hochgewachs (technically Hochgewachs is the term for a pradikat wine that has been chaptalized, but not many use it anymore) should also be good to go. While I am suggesting drinking this one on the young side I do have to say that I had a 1989 Hochgewachs a few months ago that was spectacular.

The Halbtrocken is likely a good wine to pair with a meal. Since the sweetness is minimal & balanced by the good acid structure of 2002 it should have no problem going with just about any fish or chicken (even veal or pork) dish where there is not a sweet sauce.

Both the spatlese and auslese are likely to have a significant sweet component. I am guessing that the spatlese might have settled down some by now & so could go with similar dishes as the halbtrocken but WITH sweeter sauces (think Asian cuisine). The auslese is more likely a drink it on its own or with cheese wine.

Hope this helps.

Thank you, David and Howie Very good stuff!

David, I can't believe I never realized the Bacchus was a completely different grape, given that I had a bottle of Kerner the other day. I remember the Kerner being sweeter and quite different than the Rieslings--is that what the Bacchus should be like, as well? Thank you, again, for your help--can't wait to get into these!

Howie, thanks for your words on evolving into the other varietals and not "forgetting" about Riesling--I'd like to think that, as my first "love," I will be able to keep it around

Good Day All!

Not much that I can add--you've got good information--except to say that Riesling is the queen of grapes and you started at the best place.

[James Roscoe]

The great thing about riesling is that no other grape, to my knowledge, can make such a wide variety of styles of wines at such a high level of quality. I understand why people love it so much.

glad someone pointed out that the bacchus was NOT riesling. but they should also have pointed out that unless riesling is actually stated on the label - the wine is also NOT. none of your names indicates that the labels actually SAYS riesling. if they don't, they are not.

The great thing about riesling is that no other grape, to my knowledge, can make such a wide variety of styles of wines at such a high level of quality. I understand why people love it so much.

Yep, everything from sparkling to ice wine, except red wine...there was a pink Riesling on the market somewhere, but that is an abomination!

Some people in their wine evolution start with Riesling and move on to other wines, going through phases and forget the Riesling, dismissing it as their palates "evolve" to "more complex" wines..

More complex?

Impossible..

Who are these people

[James Roscoe]

Some people in their wine evolution start with Riesling and move on to other wines, going through phases and forget the Riesling, dismissing it as their palates "evolve" to "more complex" wines..

More complex?

Impossible..

Who are these people

My point exactly Rashaan. Riesling can go from making the most simple to the most complex wines on the planet and they are all enjoyable. What kind of a Neandertahal wouldn't at least enjoy some style of Riesling? (poke in Robin's general direction )

[David M. Bueker]

What kind of a Neandertahal wouldn't at least enjoy some style of Riesling?

So easy, even a caveman can do it!

Well, I guess someone has to play the Devil's Advocate.

Riesling is the greatest of all grapes, red or white [or pink or orange or whatever], so if you start with Riesling, then you're starting at the top, and you have nowhere to go but down.

You ought to do like the rest of us did, paying mega-$$$'s for tasteless [or even noxious] dreck that was awarded huge point scores by some "professional" wine critic who couldn't taste his way out of a paper bag.

Do that for about five years, wasting a small fortune in the process, and then finally discover Riesling, and you'll appreciate it for what it really is.

By the way, with the possible exception of Champagne, Riesling produces the most searing, penetrating flavors of any varietal, and teaches your palate to discern things in wine that [with, again, the possible exception of Champagne] no other grape [or style] can teach, so after a healthy education in Riesling, an awful lot of otherwise famous regions & varietals & styles & domaines/chateaux are going to prove to be undrinkable.

[David M. Bueker]

You ought to do like the rest of us did, paying mega-$$$'s for tasteless [or even noxious] dreck that was awarded huge point scores by some "professional" wine critic who couldn't taste his way out of a paper bag.

Never mind Nathan. He's had a few bad experiences with a less than stellar retailer.

What kind of a Neandertahal wouldn't at least enjoy some style of Riesling?

So easy, even a caveman can do it!

And where are you, Robin Garr????