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What's Cooking (Take Four)

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Jeff Grossman

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Re: What's Cooking (Take Four)

by Jeff Grossman » Mon Jun 09, 2025 11:52 pm

If I just need a splish of wine I reach for a bottle of inexpensive madeira. Plenty of acidity there.

If it's half a cup or more, I go find a bottle of wine... some goes in the pot, some goes in the cook, it all works out. :D
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Re: What's Cooking (Take Four)

by Karen/NoCA » Tue Jun 10, 2025 9:37 am

Larry Greenly wrote:I assume you mean haut sauterne. Don't know if it'll work in your dish, but I always keep a bottle of dry sherry on hand, which I use in lieu of whatever in some dishes. I imagine the wine connoisseurs out there are crossing themselves right now. :roll:




Thanks, yes, Haut Sauterne. Is it still on the market?
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Re: What's Cooking (Take Four)

by Jenise » Tue Jun 10, 2025 10:22 am

Karen, I've never seen anything called Haut Sauterne. Was it one of those supermarket cooking wines?

Last night I made myself seared halibut and brussels sprouts for dinner. Fresh cherries afterward. Simple and lovely. Tonight I'm making myself a rib eye cap steak. It's a very special cut, as all of you may know. Bought a pkg of two at Costco; I'll freeze the other. May need to open a bottle of red wine to go with that, though it's my intention to skip adult beverages until Friday.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
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Re: What's Cooking (Take Four)

by Karen/NoCA » Tue Jun 10, 2025 10:38 am

Jenise wrote:Karen, I've never seen anything called Haut Sauterne. Was it one of those supermarket cooking wines?

Last night I made myself seared halibut and brussels sprouts for dinner. Fresh cherries afterward. Simple and lovely. Tonight I'm making myself a rib eye cap steak. It's a very special cut, as all of you may know. Bought a pkg of two at Costco; I'll freeze the other. May need to open a bottle of red wine to go with that, though it's my intention to skip adult beverages until Friday.

Jenise, yes, a grocery store wine, I'm sure. My mom did not drink wine, but our family used a lot of wine in cooking.
It is still available.

https://meierswinecellars.com/wines/haut-sauterne/
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Re: What's Cooking (Take Four)

by Paul Winalski » Tue Jun 10, 2025 12:07 pm

A Catawba/Niagara/Delaware blend, no less. Niagra and Delaware are Vitis labrusca cultivars. Catawba is a hybrid, most likely vinifera x labrusca.

-Paul W.
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Re: What's Cooking (Take Four)

by Larry Greenly » Tue Jun 10, 2025 12:24 pm

Meier's Haut Sauterne: A medium dry wine with floral notes in the aroma and a smooth finish. Made with a blend of Catawba, Niagara, and Delaware grapes.
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Re: What's Cooking (Take Four)

by Jenise » Tue Jun 10, 2025 3:29 pm

It sounds ghastly. I guess adding the 'Haut' and leaving the 's' off made it legally possible to infer a relationship to the great Sauternes of France that doesn't really exist. Yet the website doesn't call it a dessert wine, just a sweet table wine--a category virtually unknown in California winemaking. Karen, I don't know what to recommend to you as a substitute, at least by brand name. An inexpensive reisling or un-dry gewurztraminer might do, so might a sweet vermouth.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
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Re: What's Cooking (Take Four)

by Paul Winalski » Tue Jun 10, 2025 3:41 pm

It comes from Ohio. Most of the US Northeast is very hostile to vinifera vines. Too hot in the summer, way too cold in the winter. And home to every vine disease you can think of. Grafting to American rootstock can take care of phylloxera, but it doesn't help with oidium, mildew, grey rot, and black rot. And although the rootstock will tolerate the cold winters, the grafted vinifera vines need special care to survive.

So the traditional vines planted there are either less-foxier-than-usual labrusca varieties or vinifera-American hybrids such as catawba. Foxiness is less of a problem with sweet wines than with dry wines, hence things such as "haut sauterne". Sparkling wines have less of a foxiness problem as well, which is why there used to be a lot of catawba "Champagne" produced.

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Last edited by Paul Winalski on Wed Jun 11, 2025 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What's Cooking (Take Four)

by Dale Williams » Tue Jun 10, 2025 4:06 pm

Puttanesca is in Betsy's regular rotation, pretty standard recipe (black olives, anchovy, garlic, capers, San Marzanos).
But last night I did a variant with shrimp:
https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/102 ... puttanesca
key differences (other than shrimp)- tomato paste instead of tomatoes, Castelvetranos rather than black, adding butter. Also more crushed pepper (1 tsp vs 1/2). Really enjoyed. Wasn't having wine last night, loved it but if having wine would cut red pepper back.
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Re: What's Cooking (Take Four)

by Jeff Grossman » Tue Jun 10, 2025 10:44 pm

Dale Williams wrote:Puttanesca is in Betsy's regular rotation, pretty standard recipe (black olives, anchovy, garlic, capers, San Marzanos).
But last night I did a variant with shrimp:
https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/102 ... puttanesca
key differences (other than shrimp)- tomato paste instead of tomatoes, Castelvetranos rather than black, adding butter. Also more crushed pepper (1 tsp vs 1/2). Really enjoyed. Wasn't having wine last night, loved it but if having wine would cut red pepper back.

Thanks for this review, Dale. I like puttanesca preps, too, and I was wondering how that one was.
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Re: What's Cooking (Take Four)

by Karen/NoCA » Wed Jun 11, 2025 8:59 am

Interesting info about Haut Sauterne and that it was very popular back in my day. My auntie, a fine cook and known as the Julia Child of the town we lived in, was known for her wonderful gardens, fruit trees, entertainment skills, and wow, could she cook, and was my inspiration growing up. I used that wine for many years and was at a loss when it disappeared from the shelves. As stated before, I did not drink wine, only used it for cooking with my mom's rice dish.
When Gene bought the Liquor Barn here in Redding, I found it once there, but it disappeared from there, as well. Probably, our store manager, who was excellent at pairing wine with food, took it off the shelves.
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Re: What's Cooking (Take Four)

by Jenise » Wed Jun 11, 2025 11:02 am

Karen/NoCA wrote:When Gene bought the Liquor Barn here in Redding, I found it once there, but it disappeared from there, as well. Probably, our store manager, who was excellent at pairing wine with food, took it off the shelves.


And it's an east coast wine. There would be little demand for it here on the west coast with our thriving wine industry.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
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Re: What's Cooking (Take Four)

by Larry Greenly » Wed Jun 11, 2025 7:31 pm

Karen/NoCA wrote:Interesting info about Haut Sauterne and that it was very popular back in my day. My auntie, a fine cook and known as the Julia Child of the town we lived in, was known for her wonderful gardens, fruit trees, entertainment skills, and wow, could she cook, and was my inspiration growing up. I used that wine for many years and was at a loss when it disappeared from the shelves. As stated before, I did not drink wine, only used it for cooking with my mom's rice dish.
When Gene bought the Liquor Barn here in Redding, I found it once there, but it disappeared from there, as well. Probably, our store manager, who was excellent at pairing wine with food, took it off the shelves.


It's at some Total Wines.
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Re: What's Cooking (Take Four)

by Jenise » Thu Jun 12, 2025 1:32 pm

Jeff Grossman wrote: some goes in the pot, some goes in the cook, it all works out. :D


I get it! Had a lovely afternoon tipple yesterday with the unused 3 ounces or so of a Beaujolais I opened for a wine reduction I started in the fond left from browning 8 short ribs for a 48 hour sous vide I'm going to start today. Funny that I bought 8, I was thinking four couples: Chris and John, Chuck and Rita, Dave and Margot, me and Bob. The part of my brain that understands that Bob isn't coming back and the part of my brain that thinks I'm still part of a couple aren't talking to each other. Magical thinking.

Looking forward to this recipe, though. I've not done short ribs sous vide before, so it will be fun.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
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Re: What's Cooking (Take Four)

by Jeff Grossman » Thu Jun 12, 2025 3:55 pm

Short ribs... I'm not likely to sous-vide anything soon but I did just read a recipe that said to cut the ribs off the bone, roast the bones in the oven for a half hour then add the to the meat braise (which runs 2-3 hours). Sounds interesting and perhaps a little more convenient than leaving them intact. Any thoughts on that idea?
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Re: What's Cooking (Take Four)

by Jenise » Thu Jun 12, 2025 7:43 pm

Jeff, a few years back I had a short rib in a restaurant. Achingly tender, and RARE. A first, and divine. I have mostly only had them well done, and in fact I usually braise them myself with tomatoes and onions, which I love, and during which of course the bones fall out anyway. So when I read about a 48 hour sous vide process I realized that's what made that incredible restaurant short rib. The recipe I am following suggested 1) browning the whole short ribs all over, 2) sous vide on the bone for 48 hours anywhere from 132 for rare to 160 for fall-off-the-bone, then 3) remove from the bags and roast at 225 for an hour, glazing them with a red wine reduction. All of which makes sense to me although I laughed at them putting all their ribs in one bag--I don't have any bags big enough for eight ribs. I did mine in four pairs and plan for medium rare. I mentally I prefer the looks of them on the bone vs. off. The only instruction I disregarded is adding butter to the bag. They have so much fat, how can you need butter?
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
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Re: What's Cooking (Take Four)

by Jeff Grossman » Thu Jun 12, 2025 8:38 pm

That sounds totally excellent. Though I wonder a little about that last glazing hour... yes, it's 225*F, just barely above a simmer, but you might lose some rare-ness there. Anyway, all sounds wonderful. And, no, save the butter for the glaze. :lol:

I've also seen large short ribs taken off the bone then cut perpendicular to where the bone was, giving 4-6 thick square slabs, that can then be cooked low and slow to get very beefy and very tender.
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Re: What's Cooking (Take Four)

by Jenise » Thu Jun 12, 2025 10:52 pm

I've seen that too. And depending on what comes out of the bags I might end up cutting the meat off the bone anyway. But if it's all in one piece, love me that bone! I've set the temp at 139. One of my guests, though she says she'll like it any way you serve it, I've observed to be rather troubled by anything too bright in the red department. That might be even more aggravated considering the fat involved with this cut. She's Jewish, grew up semi-Kosher and I'm guessing her preferences stem from that.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
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Re: What's Cooking (Take Four)

by Paul Winalski » Fri Jun 13, 2025 10:32 am

I'll be making Thai yellow curry with eggplant this weekend.

-Paul W.
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