Bagels

Yep, that's the stuff ! Slightly sweet, but not nearly as sweet as molasses.

Duane, I can't tell you how impressed I am that you made your own starter.

Should I start a new thread on how to make sourdough starter? I just used water and whole wheat to make the starter. I have two bread books that I really like, Bread by Jeffrey Hamelman and The Bread Baker's Apprentice: Mastering the Art of Extraordinary Bread by Peter Reinhart. Good books were a great help to understand how to make a better bread.

The sourdough starter is out getting ready for whole wheat sourdough bread tomorrow.

If you'd like to, Duane. Mind you, you're only the third person here who's shown an interest in sourdough - and Larry runs about 10 starters in his fridge at the one time, from memory.

I'd love to see a photo of your whole wheat loaf though ! But hey, you work in a winery, and you didn't use grapes to start your sourdough starter ?

Celia you mean people here don't like to drink wine and eat bread at the same time? I was never interested in sourdough because I thought you had to feed the starter every day. There was no way I was going to do that. The other thing that got me into sourdough is that yeast is expensive to buy. I did a lot of reading about sourdough starters and there was some reason that I didn't use grapes to start with, I don't remember what it was. I even thought about planting wheat this year so I could make a starter from that grain.

Here is the page I got my directions from on how to make a starter. http://home.teleport.com/~packham/sourdo.htm

In a wide-mouthed plastic or glass container make a small amount of batter using two tablespoons of whole wheat flour and about one and a half tablespoons of warm water. Use bottled water if your tap water is heavily chlorinated. Cover the container loosely and let it sit at room temperature (65 - 75 F) for 24 hours. The next day, stir in more flour and water in the same amounts as before, cover it and let it sit again. Do the same thing for a total of six or seven days. After the third day you should see tiny bubbles on the surface, which indicate that a yeast is developing and producing gas. After the third day you may use all-purpose flour if you wish. At the end of six or seven days you should have about a cup and a half of starter, and you can transfer it to a permanent container and refrigerate it. If you want to store a larger quantity, simply add sufficient flour and water to make the amount you want. On day seven you will have enough starter to bake a loaf of bread with enough left over to keep feeding for next time. Just remember not to use it all, or you will have to start over!

I did a couple of things to make sure help the starter get going in the right direction. The wheat I used was just organic grain that I ground into flour. I have well water so the water isn't chlorinated. When it was first developing I made sourdough pancakes from it a lot. I stopped making the pancakes after a while and make bread every two weeks. The starter is so powerful it ferments in the refrigerator and will blow the lid off of the plastic container.

Duane, I became interested in sourdough because the resultant bread is lower in GI, and doesn't go stale nearly as quickly as commercial breads. Also, I have an allergic son, so by making our own bread, we know exactly what goes into the bread he's eating. We haven't bought bread since the beginning of 2007 and have passed the starter onto three other people, which is really cool, because in the event that someone's starter dies, there's always a backup. In case you haven't found it, there is a great sourdough page at http://www.sourdough.com.au .

I've read that if you keep the starter at a greater hydration (I keep mine at 1 part by volume water to 1 part by volume flour), it won't blow its top. The mix I keep for focaccia (80% hydration) is far more likely to pop, but I just keep a tiny amount for the weekly lunch bake.

Just noticed that the sourdough Australia guys have posted some video clips on YouTube : http://youtube.com/artisanbaker

Cheers, nice to have someone to talk dough with..

Celia

Celia I have heard some sourdough breads can go 2 to 3 weeks and still be good. That is one of the things I like about sourdough. I think I had seen the website at http://www.sourdough.com.au but the youtube videos on baking bread was new for me. My starter is a 1 to 1 starter.

I think this year I'll try use starter for doughs that I have used yeast for in the past. Time to start exploring.

The whole wheat sourdough that I baked today turned out ugly but tastes great. I'll try to get pictures of it one of these times.

Duane, 1 to 1 as in 100g flour to 100g water (100% hydration), or 1 cup flour to 1 cup water (166% hydration) ?

My aim is to figure out a way to keep an endless lump of dough in the fridge, and just hack bits off it and bake some each day. Haven't figured out how to do that yet...

Celia:

Which of the starters did you use for the bagels?

Northwest Sourdough Starter or the San Francisco Sourdough Starter

Ray

Ray, this batch I used the Northwest Starter, but I tend to alternate them on a weekly basis. The Northwest is the more vigorous of the two.

Celia

Celia it is volume to volume. I saw an interesting video yesterday on youtube about bread that only takes 5 mins a day to make. It sounds like what you want do to with the endless lump of dough in the fridge.

Ah yes, the infamous "No-Knead Bread". There's been a few threads here on that before :

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5063&p=43821&hilit=no+knead#p43821

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11178&p=90757&hilit=no+knead#p90512

Nice idea, but I think I'm searching more for a motherdough type recipe, made with sourdough...

I tried the no knead bread and I wasn't impressed.

Ta da ! The Cynthia Wenslow Bagel - with poppyseeds and fresh birdseye chillis, topped with sesame seeds :

CWB.jpg

You're killin' me, Ce.

I am so honored, Celia!!!



And I could eat that.

I'll take a dozen to go. Those look great Celia! Do the people in your part of the world put cream cheese on their bagels?

Don't be jelly, Stuart, I'll name a bagel after you too, if you like. But any bagel with chilli from now on is going to be a CWB in this house. This was quite hot - the dough made my hands tingle !

Dave, people in my part of the world don't really eat bagels, so I don't know that we have much tradition behind it, though I personally like them with cream cheese. My mate Jane who recently moved to NY loves hot bagels with butter and vegemite. Pete thinks they're better with fresh bocconcini than with cream cheese, and our son is taking them to school with ricotta and smoked salmon.

A friend recently told me that the cream cheese on a bagel is called a "schmear" - over here a word like that would definitely have a scatalogical overtone.

Cheers, Celia

Beautiful bagels, just beautiful and I am sure the taste is wonderful. I've never had home made. I've tried bagels all over town and we think our Raley's has the best. They are made fresh every morning and must be popular. because we arrive there after going to the gym, about 7 a.m. and they are already picked over. I like to buy an assortment and the ones with a myriad of very tiny seeds are my favorite...or is it the onion....or maybe the cheddar jalepeno...hmm - I think it depends on my mood that morning.

Karen, thank you, and thanks also for the suggestion - I never thought to top them with cheese or chile until you and Cynthia mentioned it. Is the chile ON the bagel, or IN it ?

The chedder and jalepeno are inside, but some do rise to the top. With the onion, it is on top.

WOW.

It is nearly impossible to find a decent bagel in California. I badly need to learn this skill.

Expand that to the United States of America........even in NYC one has to struggle to find a proper bagel. All the union bagel bakers are dead, or too old to practice their craft any longer, and the machine made ones can't compare.

There's no more bagels, only rolls with holes.
I'm told good, old fashioned bagels can be had in Montreal, but I'm not about to make a special trip to find out, eh?

Go to 13th Avenue in Brooklyn...

John, I'm so old fashioned about it that anything with stuff like fruits, sweets, hot pepper, etc., added to it makes it not a bagel to me.

Celia, those look delicious! Now, having said that I have to say that I really don't like bagels. They are a lot of work for something just ho-hum. But I can tell just by looking that yours are superior. Nice work.

The best bagel I ever had was made by a friend of mine: Jalapeño bagel with jalapeño cream cheese and strawberry jam. It sounded gross but was just yummy!

rwj

Jalapeño bagel with jalapeño cream cheese and strawberry jam. It sounded gross but was just yummy!
rwj

Sounds like it would go nicely with a bowl of chili with beans.

Jalapeño bagel with jalapeño cream cheese and strawberry jam. It sounded gross but was just yummy!
rwj

Sounds like it would go nicely with a bowl of chili with beans.

John, if I ever, EVER meet you I am going to kick your ass!

rwj

FWIW, my favorite way to eat a plain bagel is spread with peanut butter and a berry jam.

Jalapeño bagel with jalapeño cream cheese and strawberry jam. It sounded gross but was just yummy!
rwj

Sounds like it would go nicely with a bowl of chili with beans.

John, if I ever, EVER meet you I am going to kick your ass!

rwj

Sorry man, but in my world jalapenos are to bagels what in your world beans are to chili.
Asskicking notwithstanding, I stand by my original post.