Unwelcoming Restaurants

We are going to our favorite Italian restaurant in Providence, Rhode Island Saturday night--which got me thinking that this would be a good topic for our forum.

The place is known for its surly hostess. Christine is the owner, along with her husband who is the chef. Several other family members work at the restaurant. She stops letting people in around 6:30pm. She locks the door and yells through the pain of glass while gesturing for people to go down the street to a different restaurant. One time a friend of ours went out to his car to get an umbrella after his party had been seated and she locked him out. He was pounding on the door trying to explain that he had just stepped out and his family was still inside. It took quite a bit of pleading from his wife for Christine to let him in. There are a million stories to match this one instance. She stalks around, peering out the windows, grousing to no one in particular about how many people are in her restaurant, how her husband is "old and that kitchen is too hot for him to be cooking for all you people."

Some of our friends refuse to go on principal. Why would they want to support a restaurant that shows no appreciation for their business? We look beyond it. We find Christine entertaining (to say the least) and the food is unbelievable. Veal parm that covers the whole plate and melts in your mouth. Littleneck clams in broth that you want to slurp like soup. White beans with pancetta and rosemary. Not to mention its BYOB with a $5 corkage fee. We can't wait until Saturday night.

Are there restaurants in your neck of the woods that don't want your business? Do you still go? What are your reasons? I'd love to hear from everyone on this.

We had one restaurant that had just such an approach to their patrons. The husband worked the front and the wife did the cooking. This was a restaurant that with each new perceived offense, a new sign would go up somewhere in the restaurant indicating that you could not do that. There were signs everywhere. This was coupled with a near photographic memory, so the husband remembered everything that everyone ever did, what they ordered, how many were in their party etc.

He would also cut off how many folks could eat in the restaurant at a time. Even though there were empty tables, if he hit the cut off, no more meals for the night. Carry out was the same way. If you called in early you were OK, if you called in prime dining time, he would tell you that your meal wouldn't be ready for pickup for 2 hours.

So why go? Honestly, we didn't go much, but I guess we were well behaved, because we were always treated graciously. In addition, it was the only Chinese restaurant in the area that we liked. Since they retired about 2 years ago and closed their restaurant, we haven't eaten Chinese at any local restaurant.

The most notorious was a place called Massimi, a really good Italian restaurant which was located in Solvang in the late 1980s.
The owner was a very talented chef. He was also a nut. He threw people out of the restaurant, often for no reason. He hated tourists, which was strange since he was located in a tourist town.
I personally witnessed him refusing to give customers salt, when they requested it. Another incident I personally was on hand for was the time a woman complained to him that she really enjoyed the meal, but was disappointed that she couldn't get a side of marinara with her fried calamari. He looked down at her, over his eyeglasses in the most condescending way possible, and practically spit out his response. "Madam, in Italy, we would never serve marinara with fried calamari." To which she calmly replied, "well, we're not in Italy, asshole." I laughed so hard, and he got so flustered, that he threw me out, too.

But the best of all was when I recommended the place to some friends. I told them of the chef's idiosyncrasies, but added that the food was first rate. Now Max (that was Chef's name) had a picture in his head of how his dining room should look, and it did not include children. So when my friends showed up for their reservation, with two toddlers in tow, Max said, "I hope you weren't planning on bringing the children into the dining room." He then sat them out on the patio, by themselves. Why they stayed, I haven't a clue. But they did.

Hard as eating there was, selling to him was even worse. Once he launched a flat of strawberries down a flight of stairs because my driver left them in the sun for five minutes while he was waiting for Max to open the door. He frequently called our office with profanity laced complaints about anything and everything.
Crazy as he was, he was generous, too. Often, after screaming at me at the top of his lungs, in front of the entire staff, for something or another I'd done wrong, he'd cool off and then fix me the most delicious lunch, or send me home with an armful of home grown tomatoes, or a platter of veal. What a whacko.

I still laugh every time I think of Max. I heard he moved to Seattle, so if any of our members hear of a crazy Italian chef up there, please tell him I said hi.

I will never forget my first WLDG Chicago offline. You could say the restaurant owner was a bit unwelcoming. She pulled a 10" Wusthof chef's knife on Hoke Harden just for starters.

These stories reminded me of this incident. Possibly repeated, but only personally experienced once.

Just after I moved to Michigan some family came to visit and we decided to try a little local dinette across the street from my apt. They served breakfast and lunch only and this was probably 9-9:30 AM. So we sat down and the waitress took our order, maybe 2-3 other parties in the place. All of a sudden there's a bang and clanging in the kitchen and a woman walks out and tromps up the steps. The waitress quietly went to the door, flipped the open sign to closed and whispered in the ear of one of the other patrons, who got up, walked to the kitchen and started finishing the remaining orders, ours included. Then the waitress came to our table to explain everything was ok, and our food would be out but just a bit delayed. Fine, no worries. Few minutes later, down comes the original cook, back into the kitchen. Sign flips back, other patron rejoins her group and we're up and running again.

Not more than 5 minutes later we re-witnessed this display in its entirety. We finally ended up getting our food via tag team, and it was quite good.

Back at my apartment, I shared the experience with a guy that was doing some work on my place. He said, "Oh, yeah, that's Margaret. She owns the place."

Fast forward 15 years.

They still do breakfast and lunch but they've hired a more, uh, stable chef. Her son went to culinary school, started a dinner business in the dinette probably 10 years ago. It's considered one of the finest dining experiences in our area. It's an "occassion" type of place for my wife and I, and I always laugh about my first visit there every time I'm enjoying the seared Ahi.

These stories reminded me of this incident. Possibly repeated, but only personally experienced once.

Just after I moved to Michigan some family came to visit and we decided to try a little local dinette across the street from my apt. They served breakfast and lunch only and this was probably 9-9:30 AM. So we sat down and the waitress took our order, maybe 2-3 other parties in the place. All of a sudden there's a bang and clanging in the kitchen and a woman walks out and tromps up the steps. The waitress quietly went to the door, flipped the open sign to closed and whispered in the ear of one of the other patrons, who got up, walked to the kitchen and started finishing the remaining orders, ours included. Then the waitress came to our table to explain everything was ok, and our food would be out but just a bit delayed. Fine, no worries. Few minutes later, down comes the original cook, back into the kitchen. Sign flips back, other patron rejoins her group and we're up and running again.

Not more than 5 minutes later we re-witnessed this display in its entirety. We finally ended up getting our food via tag team, and it was quite good.

Back at my apartment, I shared the experience with a guy that was doing some work on my place. He said, "Oh, yeah, that's Margaret. She owns the place."

Fast forward 15 years.

They still do breakfast and lunch but they've hired a more, uh, stable chef. Her son went to culinary school, started a dinner business in the dinette probably 10 years ago. It's considered one of the finest dining experiences in our area. It's an "occassion" type of place for my wife and I, and I always laugh about my first visit there every time I'm enjoying the seared Ahi.

That's wild, Scott. So one of the patrons actually helped cook the breakfast??

That's wild, Scott. So one of the patrons actually helped cook the breakfast??

Yep, one of the regulars. With some kitchen experience, I suppose.

Restaurants for masochists?

Durgin Park in Boston's Quincy Market used to be infamous for its rude waitresses. I never went there, precisely because of that.

I guess I just don't get it, regarding rude restaurants. I expect ALL establishments that sell a product or service to be polite and courteous to their paying customers. Establishments that behave otherwise deserve to be out of business.

-Paul W.

See, I guess I'm a bit different. I quite like the honesty - whilst I like good service as much as the next person, I can't stand ingratiating wait staff pandering to my ego. I don't mind if the proprietor is grumpy, so long as they're not grumpy with me.

Restaurants for masochists? / Durgin Park in Boston's Quincy Market used to be infamous for its rude waitresses. I never went there, precisely because of that.

Alas, Paul -- not to defend rude restaurants at all! -- stories here are amazing! -- but there's the danger of something I expressed better on another forum, nowadays the bugaboo of online restaurant comments, which is to judge what one hasn't experienced. Thus with Durgin Park (traditionally significant in US as the oldest, or at least one of the oldest, of restaurants -- expressed in an understated slogan someone else can fill in here -- the surly behavior I can attest to as late as middle 1970s was part of a larger whole; shared tables with all types bumping elbows, certain foods, ancient regulars, a whole indescribable milieu) redeeming the whole experience, making it (as you can see) memorable.

By late 1970s or 1980 a "renewal" or yuppifaction of the QM district (fewer fishmongers, more boutiques) entailed a shift at Durgin Park to a kinder, gentler (in other words, less remarkable) serving experience without change in other features that I noticed. Haven't been there since. (On another forum I objected, more earnestly, to someone dismissing offhand the Tour d'Argent of Paris based purely on comments from friends about the foods, then going on at length about what the place must be like. No mention of it being the oldest current restaurant in Europe, venue popularizing the fork, influence in US cookbooks fictionalization by the Lyons' in Someone is Killing the Great Chefs of Europe etc etc etc.

the Tour d'Argent of Paris

Not to mention a pretty view and good duck.

It is stories like these that make home cooking all the better.

Restaurants for masochists?

Durgin Park in Boston's Quincy Market used to be infamous for its rude waitresses. I never went there, precisely because of that.

I guess I just don't get it, regarding rude restaurants. I expect ALL establishments that sell a product or service to be polite and courteous to their paying customers. Establishments that behave otherwise deserve to be out of business.

-Paul W.

I agree. There's a bakery around the corner from our house that's generally considered to be one of the two or three best in Sacramento. A few years ago, my wife ordered well over $100 in cakes and such for a work-related event. It just so happened that when she went to pick the stuff up, she was also taking a cake she had baked to my daughter's classroom for her birthday. The birthday cake needed a dusting of sugar, so while one of the bakery employees was getting the $100+ in cakes, my wife asked if she could get a tablespoon of powdered sugar. The person she asked went into the back of the bakery, came back and told her no. My wife was shocked and now wishes she had left the $100 in cakes on the counter and walked out. As it was, she was too taken aback to think of that at the time.

We haven't been back to that bakery.

Restaurants for masochists?

Durgin Park in Boston's Quincy Market used to be infamous for its rude waitresses. I never went there, precisely because of that.

I guess I just don't get it, regarding rude restaurants. I expect ALL establishments that sell a product or service to be polite and courteous to their paying customers. Establishments that behave otherwise deserve to be out of business.

-Paul W.

Was that part of the "atmosphere"? Chicago's got Ed Debevic's and the abusive waitstaff there but that's more like a floor show.

the Tour d'Argent of Paris

Not to mention a pretty view and good duck.

And outstanding, solemnly and professionally served French fried potatoes of various kinds (those having almost sanctified status in restaurants in France, high and low -- witness lavish color spread in at least one modern edition of Larousse Gastronomique, 28 kinds lovingly pictured).

My 1970s experiences with Durgin Park* were the atmosphere was brisk more than specifically surly. At very moderate prices the place served volumes of local specialties (shellfish, "Indian Pudding," yankee pot roast done with sweet spices) to people from all walks of life side by side at long tables. Most had been there before and the busy servers expected people to sound off in sequence, a roll-call of orders. Like NASA ground controllers doing go / no-go status during moon shots ("Oxygen?" "Go!" "Main motor?" "Go!" "Radar?" "1201 alarm!" etc.) If a befuddled newcomer didn't speak up in turn, waitress would pass them by and return later. Without explanation. Resembling behavior of some New Englanders talking to strangers in other public situations too.

* Motto: "Established before you were born."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rpoZHT-boA

Resembling behavior of some New Englanders talking to strangers in other public situations too.

What more is there to say to strangers after you've told them that they can't get there from here?

Or this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFIVNwiq8ls

At my school we made soup every day. That became the stock remark when somebody would screw up - No soup for you!

...the stock remark...

Aaaarrgghh.

Restaurants for masochists?

Durgin Park in Boston's Quincy Market used to be infamous for its rude waitresses. I never went there, precisely because of that.

I guess I just don't get it, regarding rude restaurants. I expect ALL establishments that sell a product or service to be polite and courteous to their paying customers. Establishments that behave otherwise deserve to be out of business.

-Paul W.

Was that part of the "atmosphere"? Chicago's got Ed Debevic's and the abusive waitstaff there but that's more like a floor show.

Precisely. The waitresses' behavior at Durgin Park was part of a shtick just like at Ed Debevic's.

When we ate at Ed Debevic's, our waitress was giving my son a hard time....he was about 15 at the time and she was razzing him about girlfriends. So at the end of the meal, my B-I-L and I convinced Brian to give the waitress a note asking for her phone number.

It just occurred to me: I may be the only denizen of this board to have eaten at both, particularly the "old style" Durgin Park.

I've never understood taking abuse from a resto you've voluntarily gone to and where you are expecting to spend your money, and these days more often than not, lots of it.
I think it's fair to say that the vast majority of these joints with bi-polar individuals are not in big cities where there is too much competition for most diners (who aren't masochists!) to put up with that level of abuse.
So saying, there is one "famous" establishment here in L.A. called Nozawa, owned and operated by the infamous "sushi nazi", who will toss you without a by-your-leave as it's 'his way or the highway'. You eat what he gives you or else. And he has devoted followers who are willing to put up with it, beyond my understanding, and no, have never been or intend to go as I think if I did, it might get ugly!