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Jenise

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Re: Fancy stoves, and would you buy yours again?

by Jenise » Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:36 pm

Mark Lipton wrote:Not to shill for the brand here, but my Thermador has excellent simmer settings on two of the four burners, and the closed burners are a breeze to clean (no joint lines for things to accumulate in). Of course, mine is old enough now that I have no idea if current models have any of the same features. BTW, the digital controls allow for quite precise temperature control in the electric oven. I've never had such consistent behavior in an oven.

Mark Lipton


I would bet they still do; it's what set the brand apart in the first place. I might actually have bought Thermador as they had a factory and showroom near to where we lived in Huntington Beach. I stopped in one day to ask for a demonstration, as they were like three miles from my home and it was 20 or 30 miles to the next closest tony appliance store (in those days, they weren't common like they are now) to see a Thermador in the flesh. They had a showroom clearly visible from the street. Whereupon a sales rep, not even a receptionist mind you but someone with a vested interest in promoting the brand, rudely and dismissively, in the voice you might use to order an unwelcome wild critter out of your garage, that this showroom was for industry professionals ONLY and I would have to go to an Authorized Retailer instead. At which moment Thermador got written off my list completely, and when we remodeled that house we went all-Viking which, in that part of the world, was THE brand to beat. It was the only brand mentioned by name in real estate ads, other than Sub-Zero refrigerators. You'd think they'd have been painfully aware of that and avail themselves of any opportunity to hand-sell a potential local customer with no competition in the room, but apparently not.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
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Re: Fancy stoves, and would you buy yours again?

by Christina Georgina » Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:36 pm

Jenise, I've take to using an old, stiff bristle pastry brush to clean the particulate debris from the grates as the primary cleaning method. It really spiffs them up and does get in the cracks very well. Because of the simmer problem, I have 2 copper plates that were cut to exactly cover the grate and I quickly discovered that they were a godsend for minimizing cleaning as I keep them over the grates I'm not cooking on. At any given time, 3 grates are covered and I end up working out my biceps less often.
BTW, the copper plates do not help the simmer problem at all but look interesting and serve as a very nice platform for that lid rack !
Mamma Mia !
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Re: Fancy stoves, and would you buy yours again?

by Ted Richards » Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:28 pm

I have had a Jenn-air gas stovetop/electric oven combo for about 15 years, and no I wouldn't buy it again. The display has failed twice (and we didn't bother to replace it the second time), the drain hole under the grill (that we can swap out for two extra burners) has been plugged solid almost since we got it, the oven goes through a phase every few years where it shuts itself off for no apparent reason and one of the gas burners usually has to be lit manually.
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Jim Cassidy

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Re: Fancy stoves, and would you buy yours again?

by Jim Cassidy » Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:15 am

When we built a dozen years ago, we bought a 36" DCS cooktop with four high-btu burners and a center grill, along with a Jenn Air dual wall oven, one convection, one conventional.

I would buy both brands again, but I'd trade in the grill for another two burners on the DCS cooktop, and get a dual fuel convection/conventional Jenn Air dual wall oven, if such exists.

The triple-motor Vent-A-Hood that exhausts throughout the roof is a priceless addition to the system.
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Linda Stradley

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Re: Fancy stoves, and would you buy yours again?

by Linda Stradley » Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:09 pm

Hi everyone! I know it has been a long time since I have posted, but I do check in all the time. This post on Fancy Stoves really got my interest since I am looking into remodeling my kitchen in 2104. In fact, yesterday I was looking at the different brands at a local appliance store. I was taken with the large Viking professional-type stove. Now I am reconsidering this idea. Those stoves are a lot of money, and I don't want to make a mistake. I am now wondering if I should just bag the idea of a large stove unit and go for a good-quality stove top. What are your ideas on this? Are their any positive comments on any of the large stoves? - Linda Stradley
http://whatscookingamerica.net
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Re: Fancy stoves, and would you buy yours again?

by Carl Eppig » Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:49 pm

If you can just get along with a stovetop recommend one from DCS. We love ours, and hate our Viking in the wall.
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Jeff Grossman/NYC

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Re: Fancy stoves, and would you buy yours again?

by Jeff Grossman/NYC » Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:22 pm

A fancy stove leads to fancy expectations (and fancy disappointments). I have no such problems with my there-when-I-moved-in Maytag Performa.

Just sayin'. :wink:
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Re: Fancy stoves, and would you buy yours again?

by Linda Stradley » Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:37 pm

My kitchens are considered "test kitchens" for my web site. I want to make sure I will be purchasing a top-quality stove. I am confused on what type and brand I should purchase. I presently have a Thermador stovetop in my Portland home (which I love), and a Dacor stovetop in my central Oregon home (which I do not like). I want to replace the Dacor stovetop. In fact, I will be replacing all my appliances in central Oregon and redoing the whole kitchen. My original thinking was - because I need two ovens, a large fancy stove (with the small and large oven) would work and be more cost effective. Now, I am not certain of this.

I value all your opinions and experience with this. I do need your help and advice. - Linda Stradley
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Re: Fancy stoves, and would you buy yours again?

by Hoke » Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:51 pm

"Fancy" and "high-end" mean different things to different people.

When we moved into our latest (and I sincerely hope last) house here in Portland, we made some serious changes in our galley style kitchen. First we moved out the existing fridge/freezer, a really nice French door style (freezer below; dual fridge doors above) because it wasn't counter depth and intruded into the aisleway. In return we put in our fridge/freezer, which wasn't quite as nifty but was counter depth.

We also immediately decided to invest the money to get rid of the existing electric range, buy an expensive (for us, but by no means Viking level) gas range with a convection oven, five burner top, with two large "hot" burners. In addition, had to rewire the back wall as well as install a hood and microwave combo overhead, and pay for a specialist to lay gas pipe from all the way underneath and the other side of the house, as you can't "tag on" to other lines from furnace or fireplace).

It was worth it. While not "high end" by some definitions, it's expensive and high end for us, and gas is worth it over electric.
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Re: Fancy stoves, and would you buy yours again?

by Jenise » Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:05 pm

Linda Stradley wrote:My kitchens are considered "test kitchens" for my web site. I want to make sure I will be purchasing a top-quality stove. I am confused on what type and brand I should purchase. I presently have a Thermador stovetop in my Portland home (which I love), and a Dacor stovetop in my central Oregon home (which I do not like). I want to replace the Dacor stovetop. In fact, I will be replacing all my appliances in central Oregon and redoing the whole kitchen. My original thinking was - because I need two ovens, a large fancy stove (with the small and large oven) would work and be more cost effective. Now, I am not certain of this.

I value all your opinions and experience with this. I do need your help and advice. - Linda Stradley


Linda, I really appreciate your dilemna. When we remodeled our So Cal home, I chose Viking. I loved the stove top, all gas, six burners, and liked the electric wall ovens although in a do-over I'd have chosen analog over digital--I have yet to meet the digital oven I like, so maybe this is just me. Seems to take forever to dial in your temperature. The Viking range I have now (model circa 2005) I assume I'd love just fine if I'd only bought the dual-fuel arrangement, and if the grill were as good as the one on the 25 year old JennAir I removed here. (It looks like you have enough grilling space to do six steaks, laid horizontally, but since the burner-that-makes-grill-marks is only down the center, it's only adequate for two steaks, placed vertically one behind the other, and inadequate for most other tasks like bread, asparagus, or what have you.) I wish now I'd bought a flat-top instead of a grill, in that because of the inadequacy I do so little indoor grilling, or revert to a grill pan like the one I gave away when I bought this stove, thinking I wouldn't need it any more.) Re the ovens, I do love the configuration you describe. I just wish I had electric ovens and weren't sitting here afraid of another fire ball because the igniter isn't igniting on cue--again.

I am otherwise completely sold on the high BTUs, however. I may have already said this, but I thought the amazing thing about BTUs would be the high settings. It's not, it's what medium and low offer you--that part of a stove like this, even this Viking I'm otherwise not happy with--is a good cook's dream. And you're a good cook!
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
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Re: Fancy stoves, and would you buy yours again?

by Jeff Grossman/NYC » Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:42 pm

Jenise wrote:Linda, I really appreciate your dilemna. When we remodeled our So Cal home, I chose Viking. I loved the stove top, all gas, six burners, and liked the electric wall ovens although in a do-over I'd have chosen analog over digital--I have yet to meet the digital oven I like, so maybe this is just me. Seems to take forever to dial in your temperature. The Viking range I have now (model circa 2005) I assume I'd love just fine if I'd only bought the dual-fuel arrangement, and if the grill were as good as the one on the 25 year old JennAir I removed here. (It looks like you have enough grilling space to do six steaks, laid horizontally, but since the burner-that-makes-grill-marks is only down the center, it's only adequate for two steaks, placed vertically one behind the other, and inadequate for most other tasks like bread, asparagus, or what have you.) I wish now I'd bought a flat-top instead of a grill, in that because of the inadequacy I do so little indoor grilling, or revert to a grill pan like the one I gave away when I bought this stove, thinking I wouldn't need it any more.) Re the ovens, I do love the configuration you describe. I just wish I had electric ovens and weren't sitting here afraid of another fire ball because the igniter isn't igniting on cue--again.

I am otherwise completely sold on the high BTUs, however. I may have already said this, but I thought the amazing thing about BTUs would be the high settings. It's not, it's what medium and low offer you--that part of a stove like this, even this Viking I'm otherwise not happy with--is a good cook's dream. And you're a good cook!

Wow. Can anyone parse this? :shock:
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Re: Fancy stoves, and would you buy yours again?

by Jenise » Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:54 pm

Jeff Grossman/NYC wrote:
Jenise wrote:Linda, I really appreciate your dilemna. When we remodeled our So Cal home, I chose Viking. I loved the stove top, all gas, six burners, and liked the electric wall ovens although in a do-over I'd have chosen analog over digital--I have yet to meet the digital oven I like, so maybe this is just me. Seems to take forever to dial in your temperature. The Viking range I have now (model circa 2005) I assume I'd love just fine if I'd only bought the dual-fuel arrangement, and if the grill were as good as the one on the 25 year old JennAir I removed here. (It looks like you have enough grilling space to do six steaks, laid horizontally, but since the burner-that-makes-grill-marks is only down the center, it's only adequate for two steaks, placed vertically one behind the other, and inadequate for most other tasks like bread, asparagus, or what have you.) I wish now I'd bought a flat-top instead of a grill, in that because of the inadequacy I do so little indoor grilling, or revert to a grill pan like the one I gave away when I bought this stove, thinking I wouldn't need it any more.) Re the ovens, I do love the configuration you describe. I just wish I had electric ovens and weren't sitting here afraid of another fire ball because the igniter isn't igniting on cue--again.

I am otherwise completely sold on the high BTUs, however. I may have already said this, but I thought the amazing thing about BTUs would be the high settings. It's not, it's what medium and low offer you--that part of a stove like this, even this Viking I'm otherwise not happy with--is a good cook's dream. And you're a good cook!

Wow. Can anyone parse this? :shock:


High BTU's rock, even on a Viking, where Viking gas ovens and grills suck. But the big oven/little oven concept is great, something I have liked on my new stove and believe Linda would for the reasons she thinks.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
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Re: Fancy stoves, and would you buy yours again?

by Jeff Grossman/NYC » Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:01 pm

Bless you, and your legendary patience.
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Re: Fancy stoves, and would you buy yours again?

by MikeH » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:01 pm

Since we are on the verge of renovating and expanding our kitchen, this thread is interesting reading. Our research into manufacturers seems to be in line with the opinions here. Viking has lost its way. Thermador (which we have now) is reliable and rebuyable. Generally, Jenn-Aire seems to be falling as its tenure as a Whirlpool company lengthens. Didn't notice much in the way of comments about Wolf which is the other brand we are seriously considering along with Thermador. Our buy will be a cooktop and a double oven.

Perhaps with the thread bumped upward, more comments will arrive.
Cheers!
Mike
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Tom Troiano

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Re: Fancy stoves, and would you buy yours again?

by Tom Troiano » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:32 pm

I have friend who has a Bertazzoni ($4-5K) that he absolutely loves.
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Re: Fancy stoves, and would you buy yours again?

by Mike Filigenzi » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:38 pm

Tom Troiano wrote:I have friend who has a Bertazzoni ($4-5K) that he absolutely loves.


We also have some friends with a Bertazzoni. Overall, they like it. Only problem is that there is nobody anywhere in the vicinity who can fix it if it breaks. IIRC, they've had to speak to Bertazzoni people on the phone in Italy to get help with it. That was a few years ago, though - their service network in the US may have improved considerably since then.
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Re: Fancy stoves, and would you buy yours again?

by James Dietz » Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:20 am

We have a 4 burner w/griddle Thermador Professional. I never use the griddle except to warm dishes, as I use a stove top griddle that's easier to clean. The stainless steel gets scratched pretty easily, but maybe that shows character.

I like it, but does it make me a better cook? It looks impressive.
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Re: Fancy stoves, and would you buy yours again?

by Ines Nyby » Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:29 am

We have had no trouble at all with our 6 burner Viking Professional stove top. Approximately 7 years old. Sealed burners, with a good range of heat from the largest burner (super hot) to a nice little simmer burner. KitchenAid oven--not so good, needed a whole new control panel after only a couple of years. Ditto for the highest end KitchenAid dishwasher--burned out a circuit after only a couple of years, needed two expensive rebuilds, but now seems to work great for the last couple of years. Big old restaurant ranges seem to work very well over the long haul but are difficult to clean. A couple of friends have large Vikings like Jenise and have also had intermittent problems. I love the look of the enamel French ranges--but doubt they are worth all that $$. I actually have a 6 burner 2 oven white enamel range in my basement that still works perfectly, is easy to clean and is about 70 years old! They just don't build them like that any more.
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Re: Fancy stoves, and would you buy yours again?

by Tom Troiano » Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:17 pm

Ines Nyby wrote:We have had no trouble at all with our 6 burner Viking Professional stove top. Approximately 7 years old. Sealed burners, with a good range of heat from the largest burner (super hot) to a nice little simmer burner. KitchenAid oven--not so good, needed a whole new control panel after only a couple of years. Ditto for the highest end KitchenAid dishwasher--burned out a circuit after only a couple of years, needed two expensive rebuilds, but now seems to work great for the last couple of years. Big old restaurant ranges seem to work very well over the long haul but are difficult to clean. A couple of friends have large Vikings like Jenise and have also had intermittent problems. I love the look of the enamel French ranges--but doubt they are worth all that $$. I actually have a 6 burner 2 oven white enamel range in my basement that still works perfectly, is easy to clean and is about 70 years old! They just don't build them like that any more.


I'd be careful using a "big old restaurant range". They are not built to the same fire safety codes as for a home and using one MAY invalidate your home owners insurance policy.
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Re: Fancy stoves, and would you buy yours again?

by Karen/NoCA » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:40 pm

I'd be careful using a "big old restaurant range". They are not built to the same fire safety codes as for a home and using one MAY invalidate your home owners insurance policy.


Really? I have not heard this. Is it actually written in one's homeowners policy about old appliances? I know when I've filled out questionnaires for a new policy, we have been asked about the nearest fire hydrant, burglar/fire alarms, but I have not seen anything about appliances in regards to their age, at least not that I can recall. I don't have any big old restaurant ranges, but it sure is worth looking into the policy requirements. We usually get a nice discount for having a hydrant on our lot, plus a full burglar/fire/smoke/carbon monoxide alarm...but that discount would certainly be moot if one had to worry about old appliances invalidating your insurance.
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Re: Fancy stoves, and would you buy yours again?

by Tom Troiano » Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:35 pm

Karen,

I've heard this many times from several people but I'm not an expert on homeowners insurance! Your mileage may vary.

You can see things like below all over the web....

Check your homeowner's insurance policy before considering a purchase of any type of commercial appliance for home use. You may require additional coverage or be expected to meet specific installation requirements, otherwise you may completely invalidate the policy with the installation of commercial equipment. In a commercial kitchen, the sidewall, rear and oven door temperatures of the range are not a concern because they are installed in a completely stainless steel environment, such the surrounding cabinets and backsplash. Residential ranges are tested and certified (usually by American Gas Association (AGA) or International Approval Services (AIS) for safe installation against wood cabinets, sheetrock walls, resin or plastic countertops. The knobs, porcelain parts, glass windows etc. also get tested for similar heat levels.
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Re: Fancy stoves, and would you buy yours again?

by Mike Filigenzi » Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:49 pm

Ines Nyby wrote: I actually have a 6 burner 2 oven white enamel range in my basement that still works perfectly, is easy to clean and is about 70 years old! They just don't build them like that any more.


There's a guy here locally who restores those old ranges. Some of them are really beautiful and are rebuilt to their original specifications. They're not cheap but they are really nice.
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Jenise

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Re: Fancy stoves, and would you buy yours again?

by Jenise » Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:17 pm

Ines Nyby wrote:We have had no trouble at all with our 6 burner Viking Professional stove top. Approximately 7 years old.


Actually, I'd think closer to 12. You put that in well before we moved away, I think, and it will be 11 years this summer.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
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Re: Fancy stoves, and would you buy yours again?

by Ines Nyby » Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:15 am

Jenise wrote:
Ines Nyby wrote:We have had no trouble at all with our 6 burner Viking Professional stove top. Approximately 7 years old.


Actually, I'd think closer to 12. You put that in well before we moved away, I think, and it will be 11 years this summer.



Yikes! Has it been that long. Well then, I guess my recco goes back a few more years then. The stovetop is still working splendidly. No issues at all. My biggest problem is where to keep all the cooking gear I can't seem to resist. The latest, a Staub Cocotte pot that I love, not that it's all that different from all the Le Creuset's I already have. One new thing comes in, something old has to go...
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