what is Salade Nicoise?

So last night I grilled some tuna for Betsy's favorite Nicoise recipe (which I realized was untraditional as it's not canned tuna and anchovies)
https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/466 ... fresh-tuna

We pretty much followed the recipe except the olives were Beldi (salt cured, not oil cured) and we used some orange peppers I had roasted a few days ago

But I noticed this comment from someone in Nice:
I have been saying this to every single American person my whole life. I live here. I am half French. THERE ARE NO POTATOES IN A NICOISE. A NICOISE DOES NOT CONTAIN POTATOES (and no green beans for that matter either). I am outraged the Times would publish this. You can't call this salad a Nicoise.

OK, so this rang a bell. I read the wikipedia article, and indeed traditionalists hold that there can be NO cooked vegetables in Nicoise. In fact there's an organization that certifies restaurants in Nice as traditional. The former mayor was vocal, and wrote that the salad should be made "predominantly of tomatoes" which should be "salted three times and moistened with olive oil". Hard-boiled eggs were added, and either anchovies or canned tuna, but not both. He incorporated raw vegetables such as cucumbers, purple artichokes, green peppers, fava beans, spring onions, black olives, basil and garlic, but no lettuce or vinegar.

That said, Escoffier published a recipe in 19th century with potatoes and beans. And since Julia Child did as well I guess we Americans think of this as traditional. But then sounds like most of France (outside Nice) does as well

I was taken to an ultraditional Niçoise restaurant by Nils and Cristina Lindgren (who you might remember from AFW, Dale) a few years ago for the "original" Salade Niçoise: anchovies, no tuna, no potato, no tomato, artichokes and egg, along with salad greens.

No tomatoes? I thought that was the heart of the traditional.
We had dinner in Nils and Christina's Nice apartment, and it included salade Nicoise, but after 18 years I don't have a memory of the composition!

No tomatoes? I thought that was the heart of the traditional.
We had dinner in Nils and Christina's Nice apartment, and it included salade Nicoise, but after 18 years I don't have a memory of the composition!

Well, it was claiming to be a recipe for the period of time prior to the discovery of the New World, so no solanaceae.

[Jenise]

Interesting! I've always assumed...but hey, if Escoffier can do it, so can we. Have to say that it's the potatoes that turn it into a unique main course salad for me. I make a LOT of green salads, and things like potatoes and hard boiled eggs are what makes it stand apart.

Jacques Pépin, on the use of a recipe. So, what is the use of a recipe? A recipe is a teaching tool, a guide, a point of departure. Follow it exactly the first time you make the dish. As you make it again and again, you will change it, massage it to fit your own taste and aesthetic. Eventually, it will become your own personal recipe.

I don't understand the big deal about changing a recipe.

[Jenise]

Karen, I doubt there's any deal about changing the dish. Put gold fish in it if you want to.. But when a dish is iconic, as Salade Nicoise is, it's just interesting to be informed about (and debate!) the origins.

This is a tempest in a geeky little teapot. If it's good enough for Escoffier, it's good enough for me.

Absolutely fascinating! One of my long-held dreams is to take a month off of work and spend it, not necessarily in Nice, but in one of the many charming little seaside villages nearby. With the TER line conveniently available, I'd go the market every other day and learn how to make the perfect Salade Nicoise. The alternate days I'd go scuba diving. That's the dream, anyway.

But now I'm wondering if this dream is too challenging! If you'd asked me before, I would have said that anything with tuna and olives counted as a Nicoise. Eggs are more common than potatoes, but to me it's more a framework for a dish than something specific like a Caesar salad, Cobb salad or shrimp Louis. Seared ahi (or even hamachi)? Alright by me! I guess I'd expect a tart vinaigrette, but even on that I'm flexible.

In any case, it's very amusing to read the stern tone of this <a href="https://lacuisinedegeraldine.fr/la-vraie-recette-de-la-salade-nicoise">French recipe</a>. Corn, rice, and anything else are "totalement exclu".

It sounds to me as though Salade Nicoise is one of those dishes that provokes endless bickering and argument among its devotees. There are a good number of these:

cassoulet
salade Nicoise
chili
Southern barbecue
clam chowder

-Paul W.

cassoulet
salade Nicoise
chili
Southern barbecue
clam chowder

bolognese

I've had great Bolognese with and without milk.
I lean Toulouse, but still adore Castelnaudary and Carcassonne cassoulet
Nicoise with or without green beans
I always put beans in my chili, but will happily eat Texas chili.
But clam chowder should not have tomato, and only Eastern NC BBQ is great.
One must have standards,

I've had great Bolognese with and without milk.
I lean Toulouse, but still adore Castelnaudary and Carcassonne cassoulet
Nicoise with or without green beans
.I always put beans in my chili, but will happily eat Texas chili.
But clam chowder should not have tomato, and only Eastern NC BBQ is great.
One must have standards,

I'm with you about Manhattan clam chowder.

I've had great Bolognese with and without milk.
I lean Toulouse, but still adore Castelnaudary and Carcassonne cassoulet
Nicoise with or without green beans
.I always put beans in my chili, but will happily eat Texas chili.
But clam chowder should not have tomato, and only Eastern NC BBQ is great.
One must have standards,

I'm flashing back to many a thread on AFW. Bolognese I'm apolitical on. I adore most any version of cassoulet and have made MFK Fisher's "compromise" recipe on many an occasion. On the BBQ front, I am a long time devotee of Memphis-style dry-rubbed ribs, but I readily confess to never having had whole hog BBQ despite an invitation from Nathan (the VLM) some years ago. (Let's face it, combine smoke and pork and you have me). No argument whatsoever about clam chowder.

NYC boy here. You're all prigs.

Ever been to Rhode Island?

Regarding barbecue, I heard one observation (from a North Carolinian, IIRC) that Texans only barbecue beef because they can't tell the difference between cattle and pigs.

-Paul W.

NYC boy here. You're all prigs.

Ever been to Rhode Island?

Sure, where they don't use tomato in their chowder!
I can certainly eat and enjoy other slow cooked meats (Texas brisket, Memphis dry rubbed ribs, meat slathered with sauce KC style, NC pork with a tomato/vinegar sauce) but just realize they are not the One True 'Cue!

[Jenise]

Walt said

but to me it's more a framework for a dish than something specific like a Caesar salad, Cobb salad

Don't get me started on what's happened to those!!!! Especially Caesar, but not because it's more important--just because it's the one I care about the most.