Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker
David M. Bueker
Riesling Guru
34424
Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am
Connecticut
Cynthia Wenslow
Pizza Princess
5746
Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:32 pm
The Third Coast
David M. Bueker wrote:And it didn't develop reductive characteristics? Paul White will be so disappointed.
David M. Bueker
Riesling Guru
34424
Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am
Connecticut
Oswaldo Costa wrote:nobody knows how long a great Bordeaux, that would ordinarlily take, say, 20 years to become optimal with the slow oxygen entry of a cork, would take to reach the same point, if such is even possible, with a screwcap. Maybe 100 years! Then what kind of a blessing would that be?
Oswaldo Costa wrote:I've lost too many bottles to bad corks, but nobody knows how long a great Bordeaux, that would ordinarlily take, say, 20 years to become optimal with the slow oxygen entry of a cork, would take to reach the same point, if such is even possible, with a screwcap. Maybe 100 years! Then what kind of a blessing would that be?
Oliver McCrum
Wine guru
1075
Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:08 am
Oakland, CA; Cigliè, Piedmont
Oswaldo Costa wrote:Even if a screwcap is completely airtight, the little bit of oxygen between the liquid and the screwcap must promote some change over time. And that little bit of oxygen is already more than in a regular bottle, since the volume previously occupied by the cork now contains air.
Michael Pronay wrote:Oswaldo Costa wrote:I've lost too many bottles to bad corks, but nobody knows how long a great Bordeaux, that would ordinarlily take, say, 20 years to become optimal with the slow oxygen entry of a cork, would take to reach the same point, if such is even possible, with a screwcap. Maybe 100 years! Then what kind of a blessing would that be?
Sorry to contradict, but that is simlpy *not* true.
There is anecdotical evidence of Burgundy (1966 Monthelie, an experimental bottling done by the Universty of Dijon, Michel Laroche has tasted id, it was perfectly evolved, and it was the final kick to go screwcaps for his Chablis) with some 40 years of age. And there is Peter Gago (Penfold's chief wine-maker) with top reds for well over a decade now: "Of course they age and develop, although at a slightly slower pace: just as bottles from a very cool cellar compared to a normal one. But then they age and develop uniformly, which is definitely not the case under bark corks where bottle variation is inevitable."
Oliver McCrum wrote:Oswaldo Costa wrote:Even if a screwcap is completely airtight, the little bit of oxygen between the liquid and the screwcap must promote some change over time. And that little bit of oxygen is already more than in a regular bottle, since the volume previously occupied by the cork now contains air.
This isn't true either. That space is sparged with inert gas.
Oliver McCrum wrote:Oswaldo Costa wrote:Even if a screwcap is completely airtight, the little bit of oxygen between the liquid and the screwcap must promote some change over time. And that little bit of oxygen is already more than in a regular bottle, since the volume previously occupied by the cork now contains air.
This isn't true either. That space is sparged with inert gas.
Oswaldo Costa wrote:This must mean that, with corks, over time the inert gas seeps and is replaced by air, so that evolution is due to oxygention and other, non-oxygenation causes, whereas aging in an airtight screwcap is due only to the non-oxygenation causes?
Oliver McCrum
Wine guru
1075
Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:08 am
Oakland, CA; Cigliè, Piedmont
Wine Confidential (TV Show)
by Howie Hart on Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:25 pm
Wow, I'm amazed I've never heard this before.
Oliver, is this true for all, or at least most, winemakers?
Oswaldo Costa wrote:Oliver McCrum wrote:Oswaldo Costa wrote:Even if a screwcap is completely airtight, the little bit of oxygen between the liquid and the screwcap must promote some change over time. And that little bit of oxygen is already more than in a regular bottle, since the volume previously occupied by the cork now contains air.
This isn't true either. That space is sparged with inert gas.
Wow, I'm amazed I've never heard this before.
Oliver, is this true for all, or at least most, winemakers?
Robin Garr wrote:David M. Bueker wrote:And it didn't develop reductive characteristics? Paul White will be so disappointed.
I have judged wine in Sydney with Paul, and he's a hell of a nice guy, a Midwestern US boy turned Kiwi. I respect his expertise, but from the beginning of his public position about reductiveness I have harbored some doubt about whether he is fully operating within his job description there.
Short answer: Reductiveness was not an issue with the Durbanville, not in April 2006 and not in July 2008. My impression is that reductiveness was an issue with early screwcap production until the winery peeps learned how to handle it.
Mark Willstatter wrote:I would point out a different error in your original analysis, though - the "headroom" (air space) in a screwcap bottle is typically *not* larger than it is in a cork-finished bottle. That's because the bottles aren't the same: in addition to having the threaded top, a bottle destined to be screwcapped is actually smaller, the volume reduced compared to a "normal" bottle to account for the missing cork.
David M. Bueker
Riesling Guru
34424
Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am
Connecticut
Sue Courtney wrote:
If anyone read my recent notes in Wine Focus - a tasting of eight sauvignon blancs from around the world with both screwcaps and corks, the only reductive one was a cork-closed one from Sancerre. In my opinion, it's not a factor of the screwcap, it's a factor of the winemaker's sulphur regime.
Sue Courtney wrote:If anyone read my recent notes in Wine Focus - a tasting of eight sauvignon blancs from around the world with both screwcaps and corks, the only reductive one was a cork-closed one from Sancerre. In my opinion, it's not a factor of the screwcap, it's a factor of the winemaker's sulphur regime.
Steve Slatcher
Wine guru
1047
Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:51 am
Manchester, England
Mark Lipton wrote:Screwcaps aren't completely airtight, either, Oswaldo. How much gas exchange they allow is determined by the liner used in the screwcap. What is true is that the screwcaps allow less gas exchange than most corks, and (this is key) are far more uniform in their performance.
Rick Hotaling wrote:Ah, new to the "blog" world but here goes.....I sell wine for a living, @ my small store in Connecticut
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