The place for all things wine, focused on serious wine discussions.
User avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Riesling Guru

Posts

22424

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:52 pm

Location

Connecticut

Re: October Wine Focus - Riesling, Riesling & more Riesling

by David M. Bueker » Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:30 pm

David Mc wrote:Recommendations for drinking order of my recently purchased Reisling? I'm new to German wines and want to see if I can differentiate between the three regions and the Prädikatswein classification. Should I go by region and then Prädikatswein or drink the Kabinett's from each region, the Spatlese from each region, etc.

Thanks

Mosel
2009 Reinhold Haart Piesporter Goldtropfchen "Erste Lage" Kabinett
2003 Karlsmuhle Kaseler Nies'chen Auslese

Pfalz
2007 Messmer Muskateller Kabinett Feinherb
2007 Minges, Theo Burrweiler Schlossgarten Spatlese

Nahe
2008 Schlossgut Diel Dorsheimer Pittermanchen Kabinett
2003 Donnhoff Oberhauser Brucke Spatlese


Drink that Messmer Muskateller soon! Beyond that there is little hurry, though I might catch that Haart Kabinett before it closes down.
There behind the glass lies a real blade of grass. Be careful as you pass. Move along. Move along.
User avatar
User

Kelly Young

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

480

Joined

Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:37 pm

Location

Washington, DC

Re: October Wine Focus - Riesling, Riesling & more Riesling

by Kelly Young » Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:43 pm

From today's tasting at MacArthur Beverage. Was slurping out of a 1ounce plastic cup/dish thing in the back corner of the store so not a time was spent with any of them.

2009 Schloss Schonborn Hattenheim Pfaffenberg - Kabinett Trocken (Rheingau)$19 - Nice enough I suppose. This definitely reinforces my belief that, as a gross generalization, when the words "Trocken" or any of it's attendant signifiers/symbols/synonyms appear on a German wine bottle, I'm probably not going to be jazzed.
2010 Reinhold Haart Riesling - Piesporter (Mosel)$15 - Riesling-y with a slightly vegetal nose. Fair enough wine for the price.
2010 F Weins Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr - Kabinett (Mosel) $19 - Now we're cooking. Zinging acidity of the vintage, but fully contained by the body, aroma, taste of the wine. Very, very nice. While I'm not the old hand some of yis are, I'd say this is the type of wine I think of when I think of Kabinett. Picked up one. Should have picked up 6.
2007 von Hovel Oberemmeler Hutte - Spatlese(Mosel-Saar)$18 - Wine goes boom! I was suspicious of this given the super sales pitch on the sign next the end cap with this (ok I'm suspicious of anything on an end cap), but this has got the goods. Full, slightly rich, even a bit spicy. Don't know anything about the producer, vintage or site. Bought one, at this price should have bought all the cases they had.
2010 Fritz Haag Braunenberger Juffer Sonnenur - Spatlese Erste Lage (Mosel)$37 - Yum factor very high. Very rich, a bit floral?, but completely balanced. If i hadn't plumped for the 1997 Kruger-Rumpf Spatlese I would have gotten one of these.

There was also 2010 Wirsching Silvaner Estate Trocken (Franken)$15 on offer which tasted like wine. Ok, it was nice enough but it is in the why bother category.
User avatar
User

Kelly Young

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

480

Joined

Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:37 pm

Location

Washington, DC

Re: October Wine Focus - Riesling, Riesling & more Riesling

by Kelly Young » Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:46 pm

From today's tasting at MacArthur Beverage. Was slurping out of a 1ounce plastic cup/dish thing in the back corner of the store so not a time was spent with any of them.

2009 Schloss Schonborn Hattenheim Pfaffenberg - Kabinett Trocken (Rheingau)$19 - Nice enough I suppose. This definitely reinforces my belief that, as a gross generalization, when the words "Trocken" or any of it's attendant signifiers/symbols/synonyms appear on a German wine bottle, I'm probably not going to be jazzed.

2010 Reinhold Haart Riesling - Piesporter (Mosel)$15 - Riesling-y with a slightly vegetal nose. Fair enough wine for the price.

2010 F Weins Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr - Kabinett (Mosel) $19 - Now we're cooking. Zinging acidity of the vintage, but fully contained by the body, aroma, taste of the wine. Very, very nice. While I'm not the old hand some of yis are, I'd say this is the type of wine I think of when I think of Kabinett. Picked up one. Should have picked up 6.

2007 von Hovel Oberemmeler Hutte - Spatlese(Mosel-Saar)$18 - Wine goes boom! I was suspicious of this given the super sales pitch on the sign next the end cap with this (ok I'm suspicious of anything on an end cap), but this has got the goods. Full, slightly rich, even a bit spicy. Don't know anything about the producer, vintage or site. Bought one, at this price should have bought all the cases they had.

2010 Fritz Haag Braunenberger Juffer Sonnenur - Spatlese Erste Lage (Mosel)$37 - Yum factor very high. Very rich, a bit floral?, but completely balanced. If i hadn't plumped for the 1997 Kruger-Rumpf Spatlese I would have gotten one of these.

There was also 2010 Wirsching Silvaner Estate Trocken (Franken)$15 on offer which tasted like wine. Ok, it was nice enough but it is in the why bother category.
no avatar
User

Rahsaan

Rank

Wild and Crazy Guy

Posts

6993

Joined

Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:20 pm

Location

Chapel Hill, NC

Re: October Wine Focus - Riesling, Riesling & more Riesling

by Rahsaan » Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:32 pm

Kelly Young wrote:2009 Schloss Schonborn Hattenheim Pfaffenberg - Kabinett Trocken (Rheingau)$19 - Nice enough I suppose. This definitely reinforces my belief that, as a gross generalization, when the words "Trocken" or any of it's attendant signifiers/symbols/synonyms appear on a German wine bottle, I'm probably not going to be jazzed.


What are these signifiers/symbols/synonyms?

2007 von Hovel Oberemmeler Hutte - Spatlese(Mosel-Saar)$18 - Don't know anything about the producer, vintage or site. Bought one, at this price should have bought all the cases they had.


That's a good price, although von Hovel is often well priced. I think this is considered their signature/best site, and some of the wines can certainly be delicious. I certainly like the Saar-ness of it all. But they're not consistently at the top level for the MSR, which is of course a tough feat.
no avatar
User

John S

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

621

Joined

Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:12 am

Location

British Columbia

Re: October Wine Focus - Riesling, Riesling & more Riesling

by John S » Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:32 am

Bill Hooper wrote:Another point that he should realize is that it takes about the same amount of work to produce Kabinett as it does Spätlese. You can often get 1,5 to double the price for Spätlese (and very probably a couple more points from him in the WA.) How much money are people willing to dish out for low-alcohol wines? I don’t think that people are beating down any doors to pay serious money for Muscadet, Steinfeder GV, or Savoie Jacquere either.

I'm late in this argument, but Bills' point about the points generally given to kabinett versis spatlese wines is an important one, I think. It's unfortunate, but points matter in terms of sales. How often have you seen a high scoring kabinett? If one makes 90 or 91 points, it's the top of the class. (That's one thing I've never really underatood about points, the fact that only certain styles and wines can deserve a true 100 scale [roses, anyone?]). Given that there's really no 'true' kabinett wines made anymore anyway (whatever 'true' or 'traditional' means), how long will German producers continue to make kabinett wines?
User avatar
User

Bob Parsons Alberta

Rank

aka Doris

Posts

9629

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:09 pm

Re: October Wine Focus - Riesling, Riesling & more Riesling

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:21 am

WTN: `05 Wegeler Graacher Himmelreich Riesling Kabinett Feinherb, Mosel.

SC, $25 Cdn, 11.5% alc, purchased for this months Focus.

Medium yellow in color, some bubbles on side of the glass. Great nose.....mineral, peach, slight hint of gasolein. Still singing on day 2.
Initial entry thought was this is a very focused wine, lip-smacking finish. "Lime..slate for sure" from across the table. Off-dry, lengthy finish, slight effervescence. Very fine acid/fruit balance, crisp white stonefruit. I was certainly in the mood for this one so did not disappoint.

Day 2 has an almost sherbet feel on the palate finish, not quite as focused as day before.
no avatar
User

David Lole

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

1556

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:49 am

Location

Canberra, Australia

Re: October Wine Focus - Riesling, Riesling & more Riesling

by David Lole » Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:42 pm

Kept a beauty back for last for this month's focus - Hugel Riesling Vendange Tardive 1989. Beautiful long high quality cork, no leakage and consequently a high fill level. Bright light gold with amazing luminescence. Opens with copious quantities of petrol which mostly, rapidly blows off. Brimming underneath a cornucopia of ripe fruit - peach, citrus (mostly orange and lime), honeysuckle and a little apricot, brilliantly backed by a wealth of minerality and some remnants of the gasoline mentioned earlier. In the mouth, the wine sings a most gorgeous tune - still extremely well focussed and precise as it glides down the throat with sufficent sweetness and glycerol to produce an impression of fatness and breadth of flavour but without feeling heavy or cloying ... the spritely acidity cleanses the finish with almost a slatiness I often detect in German riesling. So my overall evaluation of this 22 year old late-picked Alsace riesling is a wine of immense class, almost faultless bouquet and flavour, sublime construction, which includes wonderful focus, delineation and balance and a departure of some considerable aplomb. Rates an easy 95 on my card. Should be drunk over the next decade if well cared for.
Cheers,

David
no avatar
User

David Mc

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

204

Joined

Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:20 pm

Location

Washington DC -- Maryland Suburbs

Re: October Wine Focus - Riesling, Riesling & more Riesling

by David Mc » Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:34 pm

Rahsaan wrote:
Too many moving pieces. Pradikat, region/vineyard/terroir, and vintage.

So I would go by vintage in this case. However you slice it, the sample is too small to learn much. So I'd drink the 03s together, the 07s together, and then the 08 and the 09 whenever you get a chance. You'll definitely notice differences across pradikat and vintage, although you'll probably need more wine (things could be worse!) before you get a handle for the region. (Typically the Mosel is the 'lightest' of these regions, but you have some very ripe vintages there in 09 and 03).

At the end of the day, there's no perfect way to do this. Just enjoy the wine! (You could also open them all at one party).

Or, open


Rahsaan -- thanks for the advice. I never thought of drinking them by vintage but I'll give that a try. Except for the Messmer which I'm drinking tonight as per David's suggestions. Yep, I have much to learn but I'm looking forward to a great education!
User avatar
User

Peter Ruhrberg

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

196

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:03 pm

Location

Germany

Re: October Wine Focus - Riesling, Riesling & more Riesling

by Peter Ruhrberg » Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:32 pm

It's still October, so I might as well chime in.
We recently held our annual 2010 GG and Wachau Smaragt blind tasting. I have mixed feelings about the vintage. It was quite hard to tell Austriuans from Germans this year. Some wines were quite horrible. Wittmann Morstein (appearently highly rated at another tasting) showed the soapy/salty flavors I hate in some de-acidified 2010s to such an extent that I cannot bear it. FX Pichlers Kellerberg was inexpressive, and tasted severe and de-acidified at the same time to me. Rudi Pichler's Achleiten had many fans, but I found it domianted by burning acids that will never come ito harmony. Knoll's Schütt also was showing unbuffered acids to an extent that I cannot enjoy. The mid field consisted of Alzinger's Steinerthal, Bürklin Wolf Pechstein, Schönleber Halenberg, Hirtzberger Singerriedl, while the top wines for me were Dönnhoff Herrmannshöhle, Keller Hubacker and Kirchspiel (much better than in March), Knoll Vinothenfüllung, and Schäfer-Fröhlich Felseneck.

Peter
no avatar
User

Bill Hooper

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

2089

Joined

Sat Mar 25, 2006 1:46 am

Location

McMinnville, OR

Re: October Wine Focus - Riesling, Riesling & more Riesling

by Bill Hooper » Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:16 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:Bill,

I am going to completely disgaree with you on your assessment. First of all, tone is tough in writing. David is generally supportive of all types of German wine, but he does point out one very important fact: everybody makes dry white wine, but only Germany has been very successful at the low alcohol, slightly off-dry to sweet wine that characterize the pradikat of kabinett. The German winemaking elite got onto the "oh yeah, well we can make dry wines" bandwagon, and created a snowball effect that has not just led to some fine dry wines, but has also led to this turning of kabinett into a pariah.

As for the costs to harvest and/or make kabinett versus spatlese, if the German foot injury...err...marketing machine ever turned its attention to that unique beast that is kabinett then perhaps prices would rise to a sustainable level.

And as for Qualitatswein, that is a category that has been totally destroyed by both bad producers and good ones who used the labeling conventions to deal wit the dry wine craze.

Much mroe to say, but out of time right now.


Hi David,
I probably did misread the tone of the article. It’s just that the first one was titled ‘Can Americans Save German Wine’ or some such nonsense and I might have read some of the comments with that in mind.

And let me reiterate that I love off-dry Mosel Kabinett and I like it from other regions too as long as it has decent acidity. It would be a shame to see it go (I don’t think that it will. As long as there is a market for it, it will be produced.) I’m just trying to give a few reasons as to why that style of wine is far scarcer than it used to be. It can’t all be chalked up to ‘the Bad Taste of the Germans’ which is where the conversation usually begins and ends.

I’m not sure what you mean by German Marketing Machine. If you are referring to the myriad small regional agencies and the German Wine Institute, then I’m not at all convinced that they have any power whatsoever to sway taste of the German public, much less that of the International consumers of German wine. The people who do have the power to do that are the importers, somms, critics and wine-boarders, many of whom have seemed to have taken a pretty firm stand in favour of not-dry Riesling.

As I mentioned in my other post, I would like to see a reform of the Qualitätswein category. Perhaps one disallowing chaptalization and maybe a restriction on grape varieties.

That said, the Qualitätswein category is far from destroyed. It is the most popular category for wine in Germany by a landslide. Prädikatswein is not even close and will continue to lose share as quality producers abandon that category in favour of Estate, Village, and Single Vineyard wine. I am happy to see it go as it is useless, out-dated, and misleading. Qualitätswein is on the other hand, just too broad a category (as you say, the term has certainly been abused) with too many allowances and if the producers who use it want the intended results, it (along with Tafelwein and Landwein) needs to be tightened up. But the category is in no way designated solely for dry wines.

Cheers,
Bill
Wein schenkt Freude
ITB paetrawine.com
no avatar
User

Joel D Parker

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

587

Joined

Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:32 am

Re: October Wine Focus - Riesling, Riesling & more Riesling

by Joel D Parker » Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:13 am

I'm a bit late, but I was traveling in the States for most of October. Did have one wonderful Riesling this past month, with very few other good wines to speak of. That was the 2009 Wwe Dr. H Thanisch, Erben Müller-Burggraef estate, Spatlese Troken, Mosel.

My note from a week or so ago:

This is a lovely wine indeed—and my first of this estate—drinking very fine already, though we decanted it for a half an hour to help it unwind just a bit. It floats on the palate with a light frizzante sensation on the tip of the tongue and a lovely tangy acidity that follows all the way through. It gains breadth from the fully aromatic young Mosel Riesling nose, and lots of melons and oranges through to a savory finish. 17/20 in my book, and I got it for about 30 bucks at Schneider’s on Capitol Hill in Washington DC. It paired extremely well with some very fresh sushi from "Tanaka Japanese" in Roswell, GA (a highly recommended joint if you’re in the north ATL burbs).
no avatar
User

JC (NC)

Rank

Lifelong Learner

Posts

6096

Joined

Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:23 pm

Location

Fayetteville, NC

Re: October Wine Focus - Riesling, Riesling & more Riesling

by JC (NC) » Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:04 pm

Tardy report on two Rieslings I opened the final week of October.
2009 St. Urbans-Hof Ockfen Bockstein Kabinett A.P. # 3 529 290 53 10.
Imported by The Wine Merchant, NY, NY. R. Shack Selection. 8% alcohol by volume. From the Saar tributary of the Mosel River.
Pale gold with a fleeting hint of greenish sheen. Nicely balanced between ripe fruit and acid. Easy to sip or even to gulp. Nice pairing with broccoli and cheese quiche one evening and with crab cakes another. I really liked this. It didn't scream of a particular fruit but pear or green apple might be thrown into the ring as descrptors. In a nice place for drinking now.

From a young Riesling to one with a decade on it:

2001 Muller Catoir Haardter Burgergarten Riesling Spatlese. Pfalz, Germany. A.P. 51740792902. 11.5% alcohol by volume. Imported by Hart Distributing, Inc., Weaverville, NC.
Gold, pale topaz color. Scents of honeysuckle, marmalade and faint toffee. On the palate, honey, marmalade and ripe stone fruits. Sweetness suggests Auslese-level brix or ochsle.
User avatar
User

Bob Parsons Alberta

Rank

aka Doris

Posts

9629

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:09 pm

Re: October Wine Focus - Riesling, Riesling & more Riesling

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:53 pm

JC, nice. Urbans-Hof seem to turn out some nice juice and prices here are not too bad.
Previous

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 5 guests

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign