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RichardAtkinson

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Old style Spanish Reds?

by RichardAtkinson » Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:06 pm

I used to drink quite a bit of Tempranillo, but quit when all of the old favorites started going to a more international style. Now that we live in a larger city, there are more choices.

But, I've been finding that a lot more producers are going international. Any reccos for a leaner style of Spanish Red...something more food friendly?

Thanks,

Richard
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wrcstl

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Re: Old style Spanish Reds?

by wrcstl » Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:15 pm

Richard,
I do not have any answers but my history with tempranillo is like yours, too many new world styles with oak. I know there are many good ones out there but we need an expert. Where is Joe when you need him?
Walt
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Re: Old style Spanish Reds?

by JoePerry » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:16 pm

*ahem*

Even many of the traditional producers have modernized a bit over the past few vintages. Still, some solid Rioja choices are:

Cune
R Lopez de Heredia
Marques de Riscal
Marques de Murrieta
Riojanas
Muga
La Rioja Alta
Castillo Labastida
Bodegas Franco-Espanolas
Paternina
Rioja Santiago
Berberana
Monticello
Marques de Caceres
Campillo
Bodegas Bilbainas

Best,
Joe
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Re: Old style Spanish Reds?

by wrcstl » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:24 pm

JoePerry wrote:*ahem*

Even many of the traditional producers have modernized a bit over the past few vintages. Still, some solid Rioja choices are:

Cune
R Lopez de Heredia
Marques de Riscal
Marques de Murrieta
Riojanas
Muga
La Rioja Alta
Castillo Labastida
Bodegas Franco-Espanolas
Paternina
Rioja Santiago
Berberana
Monticello
Marques de Caceres
Campillo
Bodegas Bilbainas

Best,
Joe


Joe,
I am a major fan of Lopez de Heredia and have also had some nice Monticello wines that are not that expensive. Any priority of the producers you listed?
Thanks,
Walt
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Re: Old style Spanish Reds?

by JoePerry » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:32 pm

wrcstl wrote:Joe,
I am a major fan of Lopez de Heredia and have also had some nice Monticello wines that are not that expensive. Any priority of the producers you listed?
Thanks,
Walt


Currently this is where I'd put them. 10 or 20 years ago and everything changes.

R Lopez de Heredia
La Rioja Alta
Cune
Muga
Riojanas
Marques de Murrieta
Marques de Riscal
Paternina
Castillo Labastida
Berberana
Bodegas Bilbainas
Monticello
Marques de Caceres
Bodegas Franco-Espanolas
Rioja Santiago
Campillo

Best,
Joe
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Re: Old style Spanish Reds?

by RichardAtkinson » Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:39 am

Thanks Joe,

Thats exactly what I was looking for.

Richard
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Re: Old style Spanish Reds?

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:14 pm

Walt and Joe, I think it might be a good idea to try and push for a region of Spain for an upcoming Wine Focus. I am looking at some wines from Calatayud right now, garnacha I believe. That is a nice summer red!!

What do you think? I am becoming an even bigger fan of Spain thanks to a local winestore which features Spain and Portugal very strongly.

Richard, thanks for posting this thread. Do you have a good choice in your area (Spain that is)?

**** yesterday I picked up the `05 Garnacha de Fuego (Bodegas Zabrin) for around $14 Cdn. An absolute bargain around here! Did a google and thought "wow, this will be good".
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Re: Old style Spanish Reds?

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:33 pm

RichardAtkinson wrote:I used to drink quite a bit of Tempranillo, but quit when all of the old favorites started going to a more international style. Now that we live in a larger city, there are more choices.

But, I've been finding that a lot more producers are going international. Any reccos for a leaner style of Spanish Red...something more food friendly?

Thanks,

Richard


Richard, are you aware of this guy in Houston. Blue State Carpetbagger`s Red State Wine Blog?
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Re: Old style Spanish Reds?

by RichardAtkinson » Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:57 pm

Bob wrote:

Richard, are you aware of this guy in Houston. Blue State Carpetbagger`s Red State Wine Blog?


New one on me Bob.

Richard, thanks for posting this thread. Do you have a good choice in your area (Spain that is)?


No real favorites yet, Bob...but there are sooo many Spanish Wines available from the largest retailier (Spec's) But, rather than drink one oak bomb after another, I thought I'd inquire and narrow the field a bit.

Richard
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Re: Old style Spanish Reds?

by Lou Kessler » Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:07 pm

Muga Prado Enea---not Torre Muga Joe should tell you these things. I am not an expert on Spanish wines. Maybe VS will chime in?
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Re: Old style Spanish Reds?

by Otto » Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:39 pm

Joe, thanks for the list - very useful. But what do you think of Coto de Imaz? We have the '96 GR here, which I think is the most "old style" Rioja available here.
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Re: Old style Spanish Reds?

by JoePerry » Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:58 pm

Lou Kessler wrote:Muga Prado Enea---not Torre Muga Joe should tell you these things. I am not an expert on Spanish wines. Maybe VS will chime in?


Well, Muga has the Torre Muga and Aro. Murietta makes the Dalmau. Caceres makes the Gaudium. Riscal makes the Baron de Chirel...

It seems like most producers make an uber-modern cuvee. Just follow the old rule that: If the bottles heavy and expensive, pass. Thankfully, most of the above wines are hard to find and always have shelf talkers like "99 points!"

Best,
Joe
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Re: Old style Spanish Reds?

by JoePerry » Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:03 pm

Otto Nieminen wrote:Joe, thanks for the list - very useful. But what do you think of Coto de Imaz? We have the '96 GR here, which I think is the most "old style" Rioja available here.


I like Coto de Imaz. It's a bit on the plush side, but the fruit is in check. It's a lot like Ramon Bilbao.

The 1996 Imaz Gran Reserva is good stuff. I haven't had it in years.

Best,
Joe
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Re: Old style Spanish Reds?

by Victor de la Serna » Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:01 pm

About 90% of all Rioja made today is still fully traditional. Is it available in the US? Possibly not all of it, but some should be found. (Note that the name is Montecillo, not Monticello.)

All of the following (and heretofore unmentioned here) wineries are quite traditional; most of them don't make any of those fearsome 'super cuvées' using (gasp! gosh! horror!) French oak:

Viña Salceda
Ramírez de la Piscina
Telmo Rodríguez (Lanzaga)
Solabal
Beronia
Solana de Ramírez Ruiz
Martínez Lacuesta
Alicia Rojas
Consejo de la Alta
Bretón
Lagunilla
Barón de Ley
Amézola de la Mora
Carlos Serres
Luis Cañas
Corral
Berceo
Hermanos Peciña
Faustino
Heredad Ugarte
Domecq (Marqués de Arienzo)
Real Divisa
Santiago Ijalba
Marqués de Vitoria
Ontañón
Navajas
Escudero
Jesús & Félix Puelles
Olarra
Ondarre
Murúa
Gómez Cruzado
Viña Herminia
San Pedro
Alavesas
Age (Azpilicueta)
Vallemayor
Juan Alcorta
Bodegas y Viñedos de la Marquesa
David Moreno Peña
Valgrande
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Re: Old style Spanish Reds?

by RichardAtkinson » Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:39 pm

Thanks Victor,

Are these in order of preference?

It sounds like my perception of current Spanish Reds has been skewed by the over abundance of big, oaky style wines available in this market.

These days, I've pretty much strayed from Tempranillo and gone almost totally over to Sangiovese. At one time is was a 50/50 split for nice acid driven reds that paired so well with meals.

Richard
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Re: Old style Spanish Reds?

by JoePerry » Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:58 pm

RichardAtkinson wrote:Are these in order of preference?


He hates them all equally :D

You wont see a number of the producers Victor listed, and a few that you will see are on the low-end of things. He does list a few good producers like Ramírez de la Piscina and Marqués de Vitoria that I had forgotten.

Best,
Joe
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Re: Old style Spanish Reds?

by Victor de la Serna » Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:15 pm

No tempranillo wine has ever been acid-driven. Tempranillo is a notoriously low-acid variety. The acidity in these traditional wines comes from either of these origins: 1) lots of mazuelo/carignan in the blend; 2) a generous dollop of tartaric acid (this is quite 'traditional', too); 3) a combination of 1) and 2).

(The order of the wines is random.)
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Re: Old style Spanish Reds?

by Victor de la Serna » Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:16 pm

JoePerry wrote:a few that you will see are on the low-end of things.

Like... which ones?
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Re: Old style Spanish Reds?

by JoePerry » Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:49 pm

Oh, come on. When's the last time you thought a bottle of Faustino or Marqués de Arienzo was top shelf?
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Re: Old style Spanish Reds?

by Victor de la Serna » Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:16 pm

JoePerry wrote:When's the last time you thought a bottle of Faustino or Marqués de Arienzo was top shelf?

About the same time I thought any of the following wines was top shelf:

Paternina
Castillo Labastida
Berberana
Marques de Caceres
Bodegas Franco-Espanolas
Rioja Santiago
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Re: Old style Spanish Reds?

by Jenise » Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:05 pm

Has Remelluri fallen? I was surprised not to see it on anyone's list.
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Re: Old style Spanish Reds?

by David M. Bueker » Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:14 pm

Last bottle of Remelluri I had (I think it was a 1998) was very, very oaky. I haven't tried it in a better vintage to know if that was a stylistic issue or just a lighter vintage more dominated by its oak.
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Re: Old style Spanish Reds?

by JoePerry » Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:48 pm

Jenise wrote:Has Remelluri fallen? I was surprised not to see it on anyone's list.


IMO, Remelluri isn't traditional.
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Re: Old style Spanish Reds?

by JoePerry » Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:50 pm

Victor de la Serna wrote:
JoePerry wrote:When's the last time you thought a bottle of Faustino or Marqués de Arienzo was top shelf?

About the same time I thought any of the following wines was top shelf:

Paternina
Castillo Labastida
Berberana
Marques de Caceres
Bodegas Franco-Espanolas
Rioja Santiago


Well, they are certainly a more solid choice. Labastida is an awesome QPR.

Best,
Joe
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